06:35 eragon: Do you know where I can find the repository of nouveau code ? With the discussions about development progress.
06:45 HdkR: The userspace components live with the rest of mesa. https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa
06:46 HdkR: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/nouveau Is for kernel component issues. Not sure if that is tracking the kernel source as well
07:18 eragon: Is it possible to build nouveau as a module and add it to the current running kernel without re-building the kernel ?
07:18 eragon: Sorry for the questions I don't know kernel module development
08:28 HdkR: eragon: If your kernel is built with module support yes
08:29 HdkR: Most distros provide the nouveau kernel module though. You're likely to just use the distro provided kernel bits and then tinker in the userspace components
08:42 eragon: Thanks
14:56 powerman2206: test
14:56 powerman2206: Ok good it works now
14:56 powerman2206: So basically I'm using Sway with Nouveau and when I close mpv, my entire system freezes up OR it force quits sway
14:57 powerman2206: Mostly freezes up, can't even go to tty2
14:57 powerman2206: And also it happens rarely and randomly, everyone's favourite 2 words in debugging
14:57 karolherbst: powerman2206: probably threading if you talk about mpv
14:57 karolherbst: but wondering why that happens on closeing
14:57 powerman2206: No, no, I checked with libera#mpv
14:57 karolherbst: do you have hw acceleration enabled in nouveau?
14:58 karolherbst: I mean for video playback
14:58 powerman2206: Unless it's default, I don't think so
14:58 powerman2206: https://termbin.com/qurg also here's what Sway says upon freezing
14:58 karolherbst: would be more interested in kernel logs when that happens
14:58 powerman2206: mpv exists cleanly even with the most verbose log possible, so that's probably not it
14:59 powerman2206: Where are those stored?
14:59 karolherbst: "dmesg" command
14:59 karolherbst: but yeah, that sway log hints towards a killed GPU channel
14:59 karolherbst: I have patches to make it less... freezing for users
15:00 powerman2206: What should I look for in dmesg?
15:01 karolherbst: nouveau should print something, but dmesg doesn't store anything, so you might have to check with journalctl, no idea how to retrieved the sway log, but you might get the kernel log the same way
15:01 powerman2206: I just run sway with `sway -d 2> debug.log`
15:01 powerman2206: So I doubt I can get the kernel log the same way :P
15:02 karolherbst: ahh
15:03 powerman2206: But wait `sudo journalctl` literally has everything that happened since I installed my system
15:03 karolherbst: so I guess you got the log when sway just quit instead of your machine freezing to death?
15:04 powerman2206: Well, when the system froze, I waited a few secs for it to log whatever it has, and then hard-reset
15:04 karolherbst: powerman2206: yeah.. just that journalctl is problematic in case you force shutdowned as the log wasn't flushed... but you can use the "--boot " argument to select a boot like "journalctl --boot -1" gives you the log for the last boot
15:04 karolherbst: --dmesg shows only the kenrrel log
15:05 karolherbst: so I'd check with journalctl --dmesg --boot -1 and reduce the number until you see something obvious at the end
15:05 powerman2206: Oh wait I forgot, I REISUBed it
15:09 powerman2206: Hm, there's nothing about nouveau at the time of the crash
15:09 karolherbst: mhh, strange
15:13 powerman2206: This is infuriating
15:15 powerman2206: Somethingsomething... `nouveau 0000:09:00.0: qutebrowser[4592]: Unknown handle 0x0000001f`
15:15 powerman2206: Hm, qute
15:15 powerman2206: I *do* have some qute crashes sometimes
15:15 karolherbst: mhh, this one is chromium based, isn't it?
15:15 powerman2206: Yeah
15:16 powerman2206: Running in native Wayland as well
15:16 karolherbst: yeah.. soo... nouveau isn't all that great with multithreaded OpenGL, so this can trip up the entire system sadly. I do have patches to fix it, they just aren't perfect yet :/ What GPU are you on and how quickly do you see those issues?
15:17 powerman2206: I have a 1060 6GB, and the qute thing usually happens right after a boot
15:17 powerman2206: aka. I boot up my PC, enter Sway, open qute, crash
15:17 powerman2206: I can just reopen it and it's fine, though
15:17 powerman2206: mpv is what really bugs me
15:18 karolherbst: yeah... but mpv is multithreaded as well
15:18 karolherbst: if you have a nice way of getting a patched mesa you could try my patches and see if they help
15:18 karolherbst: current version of the patches is here: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/10752
15:20 powerman2206: Yeah, I don't think so
15:20 powerman2206: Unless I make a custom AUR package, which I have no intention of even trying to understand
15:22 karolherbst: yeah... I will try to finish those patches one way or the other soonish, the work required to make it all nice and shiny is just quite a lot, so I might try to break it down even further... but yeah, I suspect you are hitting this issue. All you could do for now is to disable the usage of OpenGL inside mpv and make qutebrowser not use multithreaded GL
15:23 karolherbst: --disable-threaded-compositing I think should help here?
15:23 karolherbst: for the browser
15:26 powerman2206: I guess that can be a workaround
15:27 powerman2206: At least until I patch in `--my-next-gpu-wont-be-nvidia`
15:29 powerman2206: test
15:29 powerman2206: Good
15:49 powerman2206: Anyways, thanks karolherbst
15:49 karolherbst: powerman2206: so it seems to help for now?
15:50 powerman2206: Yeah, I asked around libera#mpv and they said to use `--profile=sw-fast --vo=wlshm` to disable OpenGL rendering
15:50 powerman2206: Now I don't have to be afraid of my system locking up when looking at memes I downloaded
15:50 karolherbst: I hope I will get the patches ready in the near future, but the changes are soo involved, that I don't want to cause too many regressions
15:51 karolherbst: so I am extra careful
16:58 KitsuWhooa: karolherbst: welcome back!
16:58 KitsuWhooa: been meaning to say that the ancient GPU I was whining about last time now suspends correctly again
16:58 KitsuWhooa: 07:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation G86 [GeForce 8400 GS] (rev a1) <-- this one
18:25 karolherbst: KitsuWhooa: yay
18:30 KitsuWhooa: I ended up trying xf86-video-nouveau and I was wrong, it didn't get rid of any tearing, so back to 0
18:31 KitsuWhooa: so back to modesetting it is
18:32 karolherbst: yeah... modesetting is making quite a good job in being a good ddx driver from a user pov, just our driver has bugs which can be triggered
18:33 karolherbst: but I'd prefer to fix bug in mesa over using the nouveau ddx, because nobody really has time to invest into the nouveau ddx besides bug fixing
18:34 KitsuWhooa: Is it meant to support TearFree?
18:34 karolherbst: the nouveau one? No, I don't think so
18:34 KitsuWhooa: either nouveau or modesetting
18:34 KitsuWhooa: I just want to get rid of tearing :p
18:34 karolherbst: modesetting doesn't need it
18:34 karolherbst: and in the intel one it was more of a hack
18:34 karolherbst: because.. dri2
18:35 KitsuWhooa: mhm, I see
18:35 karolherbst: with dri3 and the present extension all those things are way easier to fix
18:35 karolherbst: which also lead to a super low CPU consumption in kwin when doing tearing prevention
18:36 KitsuWhooa: ...I am using DRI2, aren't I
18:36 karolherbst: Enabling dri 3 in the nouveau ddx should also make things better, but apparently there are some weirdo bugs with that
18:36 karolherbst: KitsuWhooa: with nouveau? yes, unless you enabled dri3
18:36 KitsuWhooa: [123151.463] (II) NOUVEAU(G0): [DRI2] DRI driver: nouveau
18:36 karolherbst: modesetting and all the others use dri3 by default
18:36 karolherbst: afaik
18:36 KitsuWhooa: alright, going back to modesetting then
18:37 karolherbst: I think modesetting should be solid enough now, we had a very old race condition which made it fail randomly
18:37 karolherbst: but I think since then it's quite solid
18:43 KitsuWhooa: [160395.842] (II) modeset(G0): [DRI2] Setup complete
18:43 KitsuWhooa: I assume this means DRI2?
18:43 karolherbst: KitsuWhooa: you have both
18:43 karolherbst: there should be a note about DRI3 somewhere later
18:44 KitsuWhooa: There's only [160395.783] (==) AMDGPU(0): DRI3 enabled
18:44 karolherbst: mhhh... weird
18:44 KitsuWhooa: could just be ubuntu shenanigans
18:44 karolherbst: should see something like "Initializing extension DRI3"
18:44 KitsuWhooa: Ah, yeah, that's there
18:45 KitsuWhooa: but does that also apply to modesetting?
18:45 KitsuWhooa: I thought it was because of amdgpu
18:45 karolherbst: normally yes
18:46 karolherbst: you can check with "LIBGL_DRI2_DISABLE=true glxinfo | grep -i renderer"
18:47 karolherbst: it should still give you accelerated GL
18:47 karolherbst: with "LIBGL_DRI3_DISABLE=true" additionally you fall back to llvmpipe
18:47 karolherbst: fun.. with xwayland dri2 doesn't work at all :D
18:48 karolherbst: (which makes sense, but never realized that)
18:49 KitsuWhooa: $ DRI_PRIME=1 LIBGL_DRI2_DISABLE=true glxinfo | grep "OpenGL renderer string"
18:49 KitsuWhooa: OpenGL renderer string: NV86
18:49 KitsuWhooa: I guess it's using DRI3
18:49 karolherbst: yeah
18:50 KitsuWhooa: looks like I'll have to live with tearing then
18:50 karolherbst: what kind of tearing do you see?
18:50 karolherbst: but it could be that using amdgpu for the AMD gpu is also causing issues
18:50 karolherbst: dunno
18:51 karolherbst: hard to tell without knowing what actually tears
18:51 KitsuWhooa: the screens on the amd card have no tearing, and they're different refresh rates (one's 85 and the other is 60)
18:51 KitsuWhooa: as for what kind, I move a window horizontally, and it tears really badly
18:51 karolherbst: ohhh, I think this is actually a bug in X
18:51 karolherbst: you can only have one screen "perfect" the other is.. broken
18:51 karolherbst: I think it is fixed with 1.21?
18:51 KitsuWhooa: see, that's what I thought
18:51 KitsuWhooa: but it's not an issue with amdgpu
18:51 karolherbst: no, it's more an issue with X in general
18:52 KitsuWhooa: if I run glxgears and move it to the 60Hz screen, it runs at 60FPS, but if I move it to the 85Hz screen it runs at 85FPS
18:52 karolherbst: dri3 just solves the tearing between compositor and clients issue
18:52 KitsuWhooa: ah
18:52 karolherbst: but having multiple displays especially with different frame rates isn't all that supported
18:52 karolherbst: you kind of have to sync to something
18:52 karolherbst: it is all very annoying and broken
18:53 KitsuWhooa: as I said, it doesn't seem to be an issue on the amd card
18:53 karolherbst: yeah... all I can suggest is to use wayland and see if that's better
18:53 KitsuWhooa: I'm not touching wayland :D
18:53 KitsuWhooa: not that I can, I'm using unity
18:54 karolherbst: well.. unity is also just a wayland compositor by now
18:54 KitsuWhooa: unity 7 with compiz
18:54 karolherbst: yeah.... all I can suggest is to never use X again and never look back :D
18:54 KitsuWhooa: I'd rather not go on a tangent, but let's just say that wayland doesn't support features I use daily in the name of security
18:55 karolherbst: then you have to live with tearing
18:55 KitsuWhooa: I wonder if I can update X
18:56 karolherbst: but I am actually wondering what features X have, which help with security instead of... you konw.. reducing it
18:56 karolherbst: (which is what X normally does)
18:57 KitsuWhooa: They don't help with security
18:57 KitsuWhooa: they help with usability
18:57 karolherbst: ahh
18:57 KitsuWhooa: like being able to run x11vnc and not be limited to the god awful vnc server in whatever DE you use
18:57 KitsuWhooa: or use software like anydesk/teamviewer
18:58 KitsuWhooa: or have applications move other applications around and change their properties
18:58 karolherbst: right... all that remote desktop stuff needs to move sooner or later, but I think we have solutions for that now...
18:59 KitsuWhooa: Is there a way yet for applications to request keyboard shortcuts when not in focus? Or do you have to manually go and bind dbus-send commands? :p
18:59 KitsuWhooa: I also can't have my keyboard switch profiles depending on which window is active because that's also not supported
19:00 KitsuWhooa: Or say, multiple applications having the same keyboard shortcut
19:00 KitsuWhooa: My push to mute button is my compose key at the same time
19:00 KitsuWhooa: Anyway, tearing it is =p
19:01 karolherbst: yeah.. not sure, I think it kind of depends on the compositor, but I think some of those things are what people try to figure out what's important to care about and what not
19:01 karolherbst: somebody might be interested to hear about those things
19:01 KitsuWhooa: I don't think they are honestly
19:02 KitsuWhooa: Can you even have a third party clipboard manager on wayland?
19:02 KitsuWhooa: something that can strip characters on the fly that you don't want
19:06 KitsuWhooa: looks like latest ubuntu is still on 1.20 https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/xserver-xorg-core
19:09 karolherbst: KitsuWhooa: well normally you don't want other applications to read your clipboard, but yeah... your use case is also one of those "like 5 people use this" or something :/ guess those things simply have to wait for now
19:09 KitsuWhooa: Why not? I should be able to decide if I want my clipboard accessed by something else or not
19:10 KitsuWhooa: A permission system would suffice
19:10 karolherbst: yeah, people are working on it
19:10 KitsuWhooa: I'm looking forward to it then
19:10 karolherbst: currently something like that is in place for screen sharing
19:10 karolherbst: and I think camera access and other things are focused atm
19:10 KitsuWhooa: I don't even know how game capture even works on wayland with obs
19:10 karolherbst: like what can access your camera+mic and so on
19:10 KitsuWhooa: I assume you can capture individual windows
19:11 karolherbst: KitsuWhooa: yeah.. pipewire is used for it, which is a media server responsible for this kind of stuff
19:11 KitsuWhooa: Also, the moving windows around use case is quite real sadly https://github.com/Ximi1970/systray-x
19:11 karolherbst: (also better than pulse for audio)
19:11 KitsuWhooa: I tried pipewire ages ago and it blew my ears. I want to try it again, with proper safeguards this time :p
19:11 karolherbst: KitsuWhooa: not saying it's not real, just things impacting more users is worked on first
19:11 KitsuWhooa: I love the jack like functionality
19:12 karolherbst: yeah.. I am using pipewire since last year
19:12 karolherbst: switched in january or so
19:12 karolherbst: reported some bugs and stuff :D
19:12 karolherbst: but I also like the idea of being able to use jack tools just like that
19:12 KitsuWhooa: I am really curious to find out how nicely it plays with my sound card
19:12 karolherbst: and I think the current version is quite good
19:13 karolherbst: yeah..
19:13 KitsuWhooa: ...I might try it later after I break my system upgrading X :p
19:13 karolherbst: :D
19:13 KitsuWhooa: pulse doesn't know what alsa mixers to mess with when changing the volume, so I have to force it to do software volume
19:13 karolherbst: ewww
19:13 karolherbst: I have a "cheap" sound interface here, which works quite nicely with pipewire, but the author had the same interface :D
19:14 karolherbst: currently running 0.3.40 here and it works quite well
19:14 KitsuWhooa: what distro?
19:14 karolherbst: the only major issue I found was networking being a bit broken
19:14 karolherbst: fedora
19:14 KitsuWhooa: ah
19:15 karolherbst: audio latency increases over time over the network...
19:15 karolherbst: but audio networking was also painfully broken with pulse.. so
19:16 karolherbst: anyway, main author of pipewire works at the same company as I do, so I could just ping internally and ask about certain issues to be fixed :D
19:16 KitsuWhooa: nice :p
19:16 KitsuWhooa: I tried rtp with pulse and it was a jumbled mess of audio
19:17 karolherbst: yeah...
19:17 karolherbst: at least I didn't hear any broken audio with pipewire over the network
19:17 karolherbst: used it mainly for gaming, as I was running all the chat+voip apps on my laptop and just wanted to stream the games audio to the laptop
19:18 karolherbst: it works fine for about 30 minutes, than you slowly notive the latency creeping in
19:18 KitsuWhooa: thankfully I don't need that kind of low latency streaming :p
19:18 KitsuWhooa: https://tasossah.com/CameraPics/P1090392.JPG this is what I use
19:18 karolherbst: looks old
19:18 KitsuWhooa: it is! :p
19:19 KitsuWhooa: even bought a stupidly overpriced PCIe to PCI bridge to keep using it on my new system
19:19 karolherbst: I have a behringer UMC202HD here
19:19 KitsuWhooa: Any underruns/audio stretching?
19:19 karolherbst: nothing
19:19 KitsuWhooa: my experience with usb audio has always been that unfortunately
19:20 karolherbst: there was a pro audio guy on twitter testing pipewire :D
19:20 karolherbst: I just do video calls with that interface
19:20 karolherbst: hence the "cheap" one
19:20 karolherbst: even using crappy headsets, the audio quality is so much better through an interface than onboard sound cards (HDMI ones included)
19:20 KitsuWhooa: not going to lie, I assumed the generic C-Media ones when you said "cheap" :p
19:21 karolherbst: well you get the UMC202HD for like 70€
19:21 karolherbst: which is "cheap" for pro audio shit
19:21 karolherbst: :D
19:21 KitsuWhooa: I like the SB Live because I can control bass/treble with alsa, so no need to apply external filters to the chain
19:21 KitsuWhooa: and also hw mixing
19:21 KitsuWhooa: but yeah
19:22 KitsuWhooa: s/filters/eq/
19:22 KitsuWhooa: as long as it's not audio snake oil :p
19:23 karolherbst: nah, pipewire is definetly an improvement over pulse and jack according to some pro audio people
19:23 karolherbst: especially... because you don't have to configure shit
19:23 KitsuWhooa: low latency is nice
19:24 karolherbst: that's configured through the jack API
19:24 KitsuWhooa: and not having to deal with jack is also nice
19:24 karolherbst: point was more about what sound card you assign to jack and shit
19:24 KitsuWhooa: ah, yeah
19:24 karolherbst: so you can just skip this entire setup time
19:24 ccr: I've always avoided pulseaudio on my systems, but might try pipewire some day.
19:25 karolherbst: and with jack you can rewire your channels on the fly, even for apps using pulse
19:25 KitsuWhooa: alsa on its own feels too primitive sadly
19:25 karolherbst: it's quite nice
19:25 ccr: alsa+dmix sometimes results with problems with some software
19:25 karolherbst: so applications using only pulse are still seen via the jack API
19:25 KitsuWhooa: I used to run pulse on top of jack, so I know how nice it is
19:25 KitsuWhooa: well, without the pulse only clients you just mentioned
19:25 karolherbst: ccr: yeah.. dmix is just... crap, sadly
19:26 karolherbst: it's okay if you want to run multiple apps with audio, but that's it
19:26 karolherbst: can't confgiure audio level per app
19:26 karolherbst: and rewiring sound devices on the fly also doesn't work
19:26 karolherbst: what if you swith to HDMI audio without wanting to restart everything?
19:26 KitsuWhooa: yeah
19:27 ccr: yeah .. I don't really need rewiring, but per-program volume would be nice.
19:27 karolherbst: anyway... I think pipewire is the correct approach
19:27 karolherbst: we just need to make it less buggy and more perfect :D
19:27 karolherbst: but for my daily use I don't encounter any pipewire bugs
19:27 karolherbst: the only one I noticed was latency issues when my sound interfaces was sitting on my thungerbolt dock
19:27 ccr: and some programs can also "lock" the audio device for their private use if they are started before other programs, despite dmix
19:27 karolherbst: but connecting it directly to the laptop works perfectly
19:28 karolherbst: ccr: yeah...
19:28 KitsuWhooa: usb nightmares
19:28 ccr: but they work just fine if started in "correct order"
19:28 karolherbst: but you can have the same with pipewire, if they manage to claim the audio before it
19:28 karolherbst: anyway
19:28 ccr: :S
19:28 karolherbst: pipewire usually starts with the desktop
19:28 karolherbst: so you are fine
19:28 karolherbst: and also audio can be defaulted to pulse/pipewire
19:29 karolherbst: but I think malicious software being stupid could still just do stupid crap and break it on purpose
19:29 karolherbst: never happened to me though
19:29 karolherbst: so I can't say
19:29 karolherbst: I just suspect there is a way if you really want to break it
19:30 KitsuWhooa: (I'm still trying to figure out how to build xorg packages on ubuntu) :p
19:30 karolherbst: KitsuWhooa: I gave up on using non distribution packages
19:30 karolherbst: either I build packages myself and use those or... I don't
19:30 KitsuWhooa: I mean, sure, I can sudo make install it
19:31 KitsuWhooa: but that'll make a mess
19:31 karolherbst: that's actually quite nice with fedora, you can "fedpkg mock-build" .spec files and they are built inside a container and you get rpms you can install :D
19:31 karolherbst: ohh wait
19:31 KitsuWhooa: yeah, I'm trying to achieve something similar here...
19:31 KitsuWhooa: well, not necessarily a container
19:32 karolherbst: KitsuWhooa: olibaf ppa or something? I suspect there might be a PPA with updated packages for random X/GL/VK related stuff
19:32 KitsuWhooa: I'm on oibaf, yeah, but it doesn't have X
19:32 karolherbst: mhh...
19:32 KitsuWhooa: actually no, I'm not
19:32 karolherbst: there might be a different one though
19:33 KitsuWhooa: I'm using kisak's mesa ppa
19:33 karolherbst: ahh
19:34 KitsuWhooa: unfortunately I don't see any X either
19:58 KitsuWhooa: okay, making progress. Cloned this and ran dpkg-buildpackage in it https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server
20:29 KitsuWhooa: Yeah, I give up. I dropped in the new source and disabled some patches, but it fails and I can't tell why with a quick glance. Oh well, tearing it is :p
20:52 KitsuWhooa: karolherbst: pipewire consistently causes an oops in my sound driver. I... Don't feel like debugging it today :p