09:21 PaulJ: @karolherbst: right, xrandr
12:53 mmu_man: Hi! Anyone seen my blog entry about Lenovo (and actually also nvidia) and specs? Reading comments around, I'm wondering if I'm delusional or right on the spot here… https://www.haiku-os.org/blog/mmu_man/2021-10-04_ok_lenovo_we_need_to_talk/
12:58 imirkin: mmu_man: long entry ... any specific questions you have?
13:01 mmu_man: imirkin: not really, just to see if other share my opinion on that
13:02 mmu_man: I'm way past even wanting to try to fix nouveau for my T510 anyway
13:02 imirkin: is the comment that "modern laptops suck"?
13:02 imirkin: if so, wholeheartedly agree
13:02 mmu_man: hopefully I'll get a T530 with an intel chip
13:03 mmu_man: well, yes and no, there are nice things like the framework, but lack of specs, and yeah Lenovo at least went down quality wise, and they're probably not alone :)
13:04 mmu_man: the middle part discusses the implications of not publishing specs, forcing people to RE windows drivers to write ones for Linux/Haiku/whatever, then a company like Lenovo later claiming they "support" Linux, meaning they certify that it will run on their hardware despide decades of not disclosing what was required to actually make it work correctly…
13:06 mmu_man: so basically they certify that what they made (unknowingly?) deliberate effort to break actually works now.
13:06 mmu_man: </irony>
13:10 imirkin: meh. my main complaint is that you can only purchase laptops with screens made for watching movies
13:11 mmu_man: lol
13:11 imirkin: there are some with proper AR, but they tend to be too small to be useful to me
13:29 mmu_man: Lenovo twitter bots are pathetic. Well, maybe they are humans but they don't act as such :)
13:29 mmu_man: https://twitter.com/mmu_man/status/1450839486812901378 :D
19:24 FLHerne: imirkin: That situation has actually improved a lot in the last 2-3 years
19:24 imirkin: wrt laptop monitor AR?
19:24 FLHerne: Yeah
19:25 imirkin: yeah, i've seen some non-16:9 panels come out
19:25 FLHerne: There are quite a few 3:2 and 16:10 laptops available now
19:25 FLHerne: whereas in 2017 there were pretty much none
19:25 imirkin: yeah, 3:2 seems like it should be nice
19:25 HdkR: 3:2 is quite nice, can recommend
19:28 FLHerne: Also, I feel like we've passed the nadir of Lenovo quality :p
19:28 FLHerne: *40 series was painfully bad in both design and build
19:29 FLHerne: everything since then seems to be an improvement, except thin-and-lights that throttle in minutes, but that one is a direct user demand :p
19:31 HdkR: I'm happy that I'm replacing my XPS 13 2-in-1 with a thicker chonkier laptop today
19:32 HdkR: throttling, fan noise, and battery life were kind of meh on this one
19:32 HdkR: plus other random concerns of course
19:40 karolherbst: and those thicker ones aren't actually so bad anymore
19:41 karolherbst: I just noticed that my laptops CPU is configurede at 75W TDP and it can hold that for quite a bit
19:44 imirkin: i don't think i've seen an actually good Lenovo laptop tbh
19:44 imirkin: IBM was good
19:44 imirkin: IBM T42p / T43 were great laptops
19:44 imirkin: good screen size, good keyboard, good everything
19:44 imirkin: all downhill from there
19:44 karolherbst: pssst you can't hate lenovo, you will get hated by lenovo trolls :P
19:45 imirkin: wtvr, everyone already hates me, so no big change
19:45 karolherbst: nah.. I hope it's not that bad.. I just speak from experience once I say that lenovo laptops aren't good :D
19:45 imirkin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhRy9lsLt8A
19:45 karolherbst: there are always those people
21:05 RSpliet: Yeah no, my current Lenovo laptop had to get its fan fixed within 6 months, otherwise it would only boot up at "reduced performance" - which meant stepping back into 1999
21:05 RSpliet: I'm not the only one with this model that suffers from that issue
21:05 RSpliet: I'm not impressed
21:21 karolherbst: RSpliet: apparently there is this one weird feature which is the main and only reason people will only buy lenovo :p
21:25 RSpliet: Oh I didn't buy this myself, and with my experience I wouldn't either.
21:25 RSpliet: I mean kudos for distributing firmwares through lvfs
21:25 RSpliet: But I don't want firmware for crappy hw
21:28 imirkin: karolherbst: yeah, the thinkpoint is great. can't stank trackpads
21:29 imirkin: stand*
21:29 karolherbst: you can't even scroll with it?
21:29 imirkin: the way i have it set up, yes
21:30 imirkin: you hold down the middle button, and then up/down act as scroll
21:30 imirkin: i forget exactly how i got that going, but it wasn't too much trouble
21:31 karolherbst: how complicated
21:31 imirkin: you can also set it up so that pressing down on it causes a click
21:31 imirkin: but in the end i disabled it
21:31 imirkin: karolherbst: pretty easy... when your middle finger is on the thinkpoint thingie, your thumb is basically right over the middle mouse button
21:32 imirkin: s/your/my/ i suppose ;
21:32 karolherbst: I mean.. with a touchpad you just scroll..
21:32 imirkin: and here i barely move my hand and have everything i need
21:32 imirkin: with a touchpad you have to find the appropriate "scroll area"
21:32 imirkin: or use two fingers
21:32 imirkin: or whatever
21:32 imirkin: you can make anything out to sound like a chore
21:32 imirkin: reality is that this is super easy
21:33 karolherbst: I guess after 5 years of using it, you also can use it quite precisely
21:33 imirkin: i dunno what 'it' refers to in this case, but i suspect irrespective the answer is 'yes' :)
21:33 karolherbst: ehh accuractly I mean?
21:33 imirkin: practice makes perfect
21:33 karolherbst: still weird
21:34 imirkin: but even with my (not very high, given how rarely i use laptops these days) level, i can't play bullet chess
21:34 imirkin: i doubt i'd be able to on a trackpad either though
21:35 imirkin: i mean ... i probably can, but i drop at least 400 rating points :)
21:36 karolherbst: yeah...
21:37 imirkin: blitz is fine though, no problem
21:38 HdkR: ctrl+f and ctrl+b also works well for typical scrolling problems :P
21:38 karolherbst: b is a little to far away
21:39 karolherbst: well.. unless you use both hands
21:39 HdkR: I guess I do a weirdo pinky + index finger claw hand thing without realizing
21:39 karolherbst: ewww
21:39 imirkin: yeah, me too. not a problem, maybe i have big hands?
21:40 Plagman: for ctrl-b?
21:40 Plagman: that's a bent pinky + thumb chord for me
21:41 imirkin: whoa -- thumb?
21:41 imirkin: creative.
21:41 HdkR: Thumb is definitely more comfortable here. I should use that instead
21:41 Plagman: yeah index is too high for that
21:41 Plagman: thumb is already sitting on spacebar \_:/_/
21:41 imirkin: i auto-lower my hand for that though
21:41 Plagman: then you have to un-bend your pinky?
21:42 imirkin: no, still bent
21:42 imirkin: but yes, it would work unbent too
21:42 Plagman: so it's more of a rotation than lowering?
21:42 imirkin: but it's permanently stuck in the bent position ;)
21:42 imirkin: from home row? no, lower hand, spread index and pinky, apply pressure
21:43 Plagman: i guess when i mean bent i mean pinky is usually cmopletely curled
21:43 Plagman: sitting on ctrl
21:43 Plagman: i can't really do ctrl-b with index and it like that without either rotating my hand or uncurling it
21:45 imirkin: it's less curled than when i'm doing e.g. ^G, but it's almost the same
21:45 HdkR: I guess I was just doing some full hand shift motion plus stretch. I'll reflect on my terrible vim hand positions
21:46 imirkin: i also have dedicated pg up/down keys
21:46 imirkin: so it's not a very common thing ot do
21:46 karolherbst: yeah.. full size keyboard helps a lot.. or at least some extended laptop one
21:46 karolherbst: also Fn+arrow keys are a thing
21:58 imirkin: yeah, i do that when i have to be on a laptop without pg up/down
21:58 imirkin: the T420s i currently have has those, pretty sure
22:01 HdkR: I have pg up and down disabled on my current laptop. Dell in their wisdom decided to use half height arrow keys and put the page buttons above them in half height. So I was constantly nudging it
22:05 imirkin: haha
22:08 karolherbst: HdkR: oh wow...
22:15 Lyude: HdkR: oh I hate half height arrow keys
22:15 Lyude: I just consider those to be broken keyboards
22:29 HdkR: Definitely not great
22:30 HdkR: Better than the arrow keys eating in to the right shift key though