01:51 pl44c: alright so it seems after reading the the logs in #dri-devel that tearing in nouveau with reverse prime is unfixable on the external displays
01:51 pl44c: now would wayland be a magic bullet as to fixing this?
01:53 gnarface: it composites at a lower level
01:53 gnarface: everything it does is inherently composited
01:53 gnarface: or something like that
01:55 gnarface: though i can't tell you how that would be different materially from just running compton on Xorg, i know that it is a different implementation in fundamental ways that could theoretically matter here
01:55 pl44c: right now I just have to figure out how to use wayland
01:55 gnarface: lemme know if you have any luck with that
01:55 gnarface: i couldn't even figure out how to build it
01:56 pl44c: reason I stayed with X is that there's no xscreensaver
01:56 pl44c: real reason is that there's no way to stream the desktop
01:56 gnarface: the reason i stayed with X was because Nvidia stayed with X and i still care about game support :-/
01:56 pl44c: I gamed in a VM
01:57 gnarface: i'm pretty sure this will be my last Nvidia card though unless someone gifts me another free one as a hand-me down (the last one would have been my final Nvidia card if that hadn't happend)
01:57 pl44c: I may actually get a nvidia card for a desktop just for VM use
01:57 pl44c: I stopped using the VM setup because amd STILL has the hardware level reset bug
01:57 gnarface: oh
01:58 pl44c: and this was with a Vega 64
01:58 pl44c: so newest hardware STILL has a longstanding bug
01:58 gnarface: i didn't bother with the VM setup because by the time VMs and hardware got good enough to do that acceptably for gaming i was already boycotting Microsoft
01:58 pl44c: I used linux in the VM too
01:58 pl44c: I enjoy hacking wine to make things work
01:59 pl44c: problem was with VR stuff and the drivers being weak for it
01:59 gnarface: hmm. indeed. i don't enjoy that so much but i do enjoy it when it works and also avoids crashes that the Windows users get :)
02:00 pl44c: I like it when using win fixes bugs and gets some effects that broke in never versions of windows
02:00 pl44c: *wine
02:01 pl44c: so I had the VM dual boot but now I switched to using a laptop for my desktop and made the Vega 64 system a dedicated gaming box (Xbox)
02:01 gnarface: well, Wayland shoudl work fine with the Intel card
02:01 gnarface: with new enough drivers
02:01 gnarface: you can probably get it working with nouveau too
02:01 pl44c: I need to figure out how it works with the external displays
02:02 gnarface: but i was under the impression that the official nvidia drivers are still a no-go for Wayland
02:02 pl44c: You can use wayland compositors that use eglsstreams
02:02 pl44c: which is only Gnome now iirc
02:02 pl44c: rather support not use
02:03 pl44c: all compositors prefer actually using GBM
02:03 gnarface: oh hmmm. i thought i heard there was an egl patch for e17's built-in compositor but maybe i just dreamed that
02:03 pl44c: from my breif use of wayland in late 2017 there were enough quirks with programs I used that still depended on X
02:04 pl44c: that made me not like it
02:04 pl44c: in addition to not being able to stream the screen back when I used to run proprietary programs on the host
02:04 pl44c: and some WM specific quirks because it didn't work exactly like i3
02:05 pl44c: why replace what works with something inferior
02:07 gnarface: i had a response, but i'm self-censoring it
02:07 pl44c: go ahead and say it
02:07 pl44c: it's the internet
02:08 gnarface: lemme just try to infer it instead. are you familiar with something called the Dunning-Kruger effect?
02:09 pl44c: yes
02:10 pl44c: I don't think that my software is superior if that's what you're getting at
02:10 gnarface: hah, no, that's not what i'm getting at
02:11 joepublic: infer is to imply as catch is to throw
02:12 gnarface: what i'm getting at is that while i respect many of the people working on Wayland as coders who are definitely smarter than me, i also recognize something externally that as a group, they can't. and that is simply that they've bitten off more than they can chew.
02:12 gnarface: and they've done it because they *think* it'll be less work in the long run than just cleaning Xorg
02:13 gnarface: they still think that and will continue to think that long after it's already proven conspicuously greater in effort
02:13 gnarface: and the view isn't rationally based
02:13 gnarface: it's emotionally based
02:13 pl44c: yeah I've seen some of that myself
02:14 pl44c: which added to my disdain from it in all honesty
02:14 pl44c: until it's shoved down my gullet like systemd and pulseaudio I probably won't be using it
02:14 gnarface: and maybe in the long run Wayland will pan out. but i think it will remain a niche that might see some broader usage in lower-powered mobile devices while in the rest of the world, Xorg gets forked again and life moves on.
02:15 gnarface: (remember this is just history repeating itself to a certain degree; Xorg came from a fork of XFree86 over essentially the same maintenance complaints)
02:15 joepublic: if everyone gets on board with Wayland ideology, the world will join them and complete their project to the last detail. hasn't happened, might, probably won't.
02:15 gnarface: well if *Nvidia* gets on board with the Wayland ideology i think most the industry will fall in line quickly. i don't think Nvidia even realizes they have that power. i doubt they'd use it for something so good and unifying if they did.
02:17 gnarface: my theory about the Dunning-Krueger effect is that it can happen at a macro level too, in groups of people. i'm not sure if it's valid to use the same psychological term for that. it seems like emergent behavior to me.
02:18 joepublic: the dunning-kreuger effect is applicable all the way down to individuals. If they are good, they evaluate themselves critically (i.e. correctly); if they suck, they evaluate themselves as gods among mortals
03:20 fling: Which video card runs without blobs with low power consumption and can be used to connect multiple screens?
03:35 gnarface: fling: i don't know, but you might be able to figure it out from this https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix/
03:37 gnarface: fling: but it's probably important to mention that if you're asking about this as a way to guide a purchasing decision, pretty much everyone in here who knows what they're talking about (a group i don't include myself in) will tell you that your best option is not a Nvidia card
03:43 fling: gnarface: because of performance?
03:44 fling: gnarface: I'm going to run it on dual-mcm with two numa nodes.
03:45 gnarface: fling: well, not specifically because of performance, but because of numerous apparently insurmountable technical issues (many of which however do impact performance)
03:45 fling: gnarface: so I probably don't care much about opengl performance eg games.
03:45 gnarface: also because you mentioned low-power
03:45 gnarface: which no Nvidia gear is known for
03:46 gnarface: but make no mistake, most of these you won't even be able to get them out of powersaving mode
03:46 gnarface: so performance will still suck
03:46 gnarface: but even in powersaving mode, any crappy onboard Intel card is going to suit you better if you care about power consumption
03:46 fling: Then which card to get? :p I this VGA compatible controller: ASPEED Technology, Inc. ASPEED Graphics Family (rev 10)
03:47 fling: The problem is it only has a single d-sub port.
03:47 gnarface: AMD hardware is a popular choice these days, though you have to be careful which to pick because some of their cards are not exactly known for electricity efficiency either
03:48 gnarface: Intel hardware is very well supported in general too though you won't get the same performance figures it tends to be very electrically efficient
03:48 fling: I have r7 250 which I'm getting rid of because it wants blobs :<
03:48 fling: Unfortunately aspeed is not intel
03:48 gnarface: i think the Intel cards require blobs too, but they're blobs that have been cleared for inclusion into the mainline kernel
03:48 gnarface: i could be wrong about that, maybe Intel only requires the blobs for their wifi/bluetooth stuff
03:49 pl44c: All amd hardware required firmware to be uploaded to it
03:49 pl44c: *requires
03:50 pl44c: if you want blob free go with nvidia cards kepler and under
03:50 fling: pl44c: older radeon cards run without blobs.
03:51 fling: I have GeForce 7300 GT gv-nx73t256p-rh
03:51 fling: Is this one bad? ^
03:52 fling: It comes passive cooling and I remember it getting really hot
03:52 pl44c: well if you only plan to do basic things it might do fine
03:52 pl44c: kepler was the gtx 7xx series
03:53 pl44c: that and anything older should be fine blob free
03:53 fling: I also have GT230
03:53 pl44c: it will not have as good performance compared to to non-free driver but still work well nontheless
03:53 fling: pl44c: fine but what about power consumption?
03:54 pl44c: depends on the card nouveau runs all cards on the lowest power state by default
03:54 pl44c: you have to manually tell it to clock up (reclocking)
03:55 pl44c: power consumption should be normal for how much the hardware is being taxed
03:55 gnarface: yea, it will be that, which will be low because of low power mode, but i'm not sure if it'll be "good"
03:56 gnarface: (compared to other hardware designed for efficiency, anyway)
03:56 gnarface: fling: yea, purely compatibility-wise with nouvueau, the 7xx series is the best family right now
03:56 pl44c: fling: look the the specs of the cards and see what they are rated for
03:56 pl44c: it should be the same if not better becuause nouveau never boosts the clock
03:57 gnarface: i thought the new AMD hardware would work without firmware but just not do hardware openGL acceleration without it?
03:57 pl44c: gnarface: you can't even do modesetting or KMS
03:57 fling: gnarface: I only tried this with older hardware
03:57 gnarface: oh, i see
03:58 pl44c: I tried it with a HD7500
03:58 gnarface: fling: note that with nouveau, you can't necessarily expect support to increase or decrease in chronological card-release order
03:59 gnarface: support peaks around the 700 series and regresses differently in both directions from there
03:59 gnarface: it's a big mess really, and it's worse if you're using optimus hardware
04:00 pl44c: optimus more like stoptimus rofl xd
04:00 gnarface: i can't stress that enough... stay away from optimus hardware. if someone gives you a dual-gpu laptop for free that's probably still going to cost you too much.
04:02 gnarface: (in time and emotional trauma, if not actual money)
04:02 pl44c: can confirm the screan tearing makes me tear irl
04:04 airlied: the best thing about optims hw is turning off the nvidia to save battery
04:05 gnarface: haha
04:06 gnarface: yea and Intel has done enough work on their driver now that in a lot of cases it's faster than using the nvidia card with nouveau anyway, despite being inferior hardware
04:07 gnarface: that's a tragic irony
04:07 gnarface: but i hear they contributed a lot to mesa in the process, which helps everyone, so that's good
04:09 gnarface: it's certainly a lot more productive than the way nvidia just drills their own holes into everything
04:10 gnarface: (introducing a boat load of completely unique security and support issues in the process)
04:10 pl44c: I actually get more frames with the igpu than the k2000M on my w530
04:10 pl44c: even when setting it to the max performance state
04:10 pl44c: withe nouveau and the proprietary driver
04:11 pl44c: tempted to buy a t530 mobo igpu only model and just get rid of 16GB of ram
04:11 pl44c: and swap out the boards
04:14 pl44c: guess I can't have 32GB in a laptop after all :/
04:18 HdkR: I have a W540 with 32GB in it. Hard to find a thinner thing with 32GB support though ;)
04:19 pl44c: but then I get a garbage keyboard
04:25 fling: http://www.geeks3d.com/20090618/graphics-cards-thermal-design-power-tdp-database/
04:25 fling: GeForce 7300 GS -> 16 ; GeForce GTS 240 -> 120
04:26 fling: Do I need these cards? I could trade them in today
04:26 pl44c: for scrap and raw material
04:28 fling: 240 has ramdac broken so d-sub port is not working btw
04:28 fling: So only dvi-d and/or hdmi is possible to use.
04:28 fling: Not sure they will both work at the same time.
04:31 fling: pl44c: HdkR: I have 96G in my kgpe-d16 but only ast gpu, need to choose something to use in pci-e port ;<
04:31 fling: I have one 16G ram stick crashing memtest and one still shipping
04:31 pl44c: do you plan on using this machine as a desktop?
04:32 pl44c: or just a server with a head attached for physical access
04:32 fling: pl44c: as a desktop, and I wanted to connect atleast 2 screens.
04:33 pl44c: get any kepler GTX 7xx series card
04:33 pl44c: best performance and features
04:33 HdkR: Or an AMD card *cough*
04:33 pl44c: HdkR: he has a libreboot machine so firmware is a no go
04:33 HdkR: ooooh
04:34 fling: pl44c: how do you know? :D
04:34 pl44c: there's no other reason why someone would get that board
04:34 fling: pl44c: but it is fast, 32 cores, can use 192G ram…
04:35 pl44c: yes but there's many other options that are probably more cost effective
04:35 fling: A lot of them sold in Russia for only 10k RUR
04:36 pl44c: also you specified a firmware free gpu
04:36 pl44c: which was a dead giveaway
04:36 pl44c: I collect ancient thinkpads for cheap for libreboot
04:36 fling: Is power management good on gtx 7xx?
04:36 pl44c: fling: yes if you get a low power gpu
04:36 fling: This is what I should do too with thinkpads hmm hmm
04:37 fling: pl44c: what model do you recommend?
04:37 pl44c: I got a gtx 780ti but I blew it up when I moved a cable out of a fan in my case (static shock)
04:37 pl44c: thing worked fine
04:37 pl44c: before it died
04:38 pl44c: get something mid range if you aren't going for the perf champ as I'm sure there's other conservative things
04:39 pl44c: again spec sheets are your friend
04:40 fling: pl44c: but what if I will buy a high end one? Will it still consume a lot in idle?
04:40 pl44c: not if you don't reclock it
04:40 pl44c: nouveau defaults to lowest power state
04:41 fling: GTX750Ti 2Gb MSI ; GTX760 2Gb Galaxy ; GTX760 2Gb Gigabyte
04:41 fling: These three I found in a local shop ^ where I'm heading today
04:41 pl44c: should work fine
04:42 fling: pl44c: I thought nouveau has dynamic reclocking? Or is not there such thing?
04:42 HdkR: My 2080ti consumes 20-30w in P8. So it isn't completely terrible :P
04:42 fling: Oh Galaxy is the chinese fake I wathed a video about yesterday!
04:43 fling: Ok, I'm getting rid of 240 and 7300
04:43 fling: GTX750Ti 2Gb MSI or GTX760 2Gb Gigabyte to buy?
04:44 pl44c: 750 ti is a maxwell IIRC
04:44 pl44c: do not get it
04:45 pl44c: https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeNames/#NV110
04:45 pl44c: yep
04:45 pl44c: go with the 760
04:46 pl44c: 750 ti will require firmware
04:46 fling: omg!!
04:49 pl44c: anyway I'm off to bed go to #libreboot if you want other libre nerds to help
04:49 pl44c: but they might redirect you here again :^
04:50 pl44c: anyway peace and may stallman be with you
04:51 fling: pl44c: thanks for the info! https://i.imgur.com/V5K7N1I.jpg
04:52 fling: In free software, noone can hear you scream
04:53 fling: Will I be testing nouveau with you when I will get the gpu?
04:53 fling: Also is it a bad idea to also use ast with nouveau together in X?
04:55 fling: Do I need 4.19 or is 4.18 good? Or are you using a custom kernel/nouveau repo? I remember off-tree nouveau in kernel in the past :D
11:54 cynicfm: hello i have nvidia optimus gpu and i noticed when i play supertuxkart using intel gpu performance is okay when i play it using DRI_PRIME=1 i get worse performance, i wonder why nouveau gpu has worse performance than intel???
12:17 gnarface: cynicfm: in most cases it's the gpu clocking
12:17 gnarface: lack of support for automatic gpu clocking
12:17 gnarface: some of them can be changed manually though
12:18 cynicfm: it happened to me on devuan as well, with other game quake 2 like
12:18 cynicfm: i use systemd arch linux distro now called artix
12:19 cynicfm: systemd free*
12:20 gnarface: i would expect that it wouldn't be different between distros, but it might change between kernel versions
12:20 cynicfm: yeah i wonder if this cat and echo way would do anything
12:20 gnarface: it might
12:20 cynicfm: here on artix, how can i check the kernel version?
12:21 gnarface: it's probably `uname -a` on every distro
12:21 cynicfm: is 4.19.4 version of the kernel??
12:21 gnarface: yea, for real
12:21 cynicfm: Linux fil-lap 4.19.4-artix1-1-ARTIX
12:22 gnarface: it exists
12:22 cynicfm: yeah only i remembered how to cat and echo but maybe ill have look on nouveau website
12:22 cynicfm: only if i remembered*
12:22 gnarface: check into the cpu frequency governor too
12:22 cynicfm: how :P pls if you tell me to do something i usually dont know how ;D
12:23 gnarface: uh, i don't remember the exact path of the nouveau one...
12:23 gnarface: gotta check my scrollback
12:24 gnarface: scrollback says it is /sys/kernel/debug/dri/1/pstate
12:24 gnarface: cat that first to see the valid states
12:24 gnarface: it's a good idea to make a little script to do it
12:24 cynicfm: yeah thats the one
12:25 gnarface: and you have to enable debug i think
12:25 cynicfm: under root?
12:25 gnarface: for the driver
12:25 gnarface: you probably have to be root, yea
12:25 cynicfm: im gonna write this command now to my notebook ;p
12:25 cynicfm: the directory
12:25 gnarface: no
12:26 gnarface: `cat /sys/kernel/debug/dri/1/pstate`
12:26 cynicfm: i dont know how to make script and how to enable debug as well but im gonna cat it now
12:27 cynicfm: uhh i remember i needed to mount this earlier
12:27 cynicfm: cuz it says no such file or directory
12:27 gnarface: yea
12:28 cynicfm: mount -l??
12:28 gnarface: maybe this one: `mount -t debugfs none /sys/kernel/debug`
12:28 gnarface: does that work? i forget if there was a module parameter too
12:30 cynicfm: sorry im writing everything down to notepad first for future
12:30 cynicfm: ok im gonna check
12:31 cynicfm: ok yeah well i mounted it
12:31 cynicfm: but cat doesn't show anything still
12:34 cynicfm: sorry kicked again ;P
12:34 cynicfm: yeah so i mounted a file
12:35 gnarface: is there anything in /sys/kernel/debug now?
12:35 gnarface: `ls /sys/kernel/debug/`
12:35 cynicfm: yes
12:36 gnarface: ok good
12:36 karolherbst: imirkin: ping on the nine patch
12:37 cynicfm: there is yeah many things
12:37 cynicfm: but cat doesnt do anything ;P
12:38 gnarface: `cat /sys/kernel/debug/dri/1/pstate`
12:38 gnarface: nothing?
12:38 cynicfm: with `??
12:38 cynicfm: :D
12:39 gnarface: without, since you asked
12:39 cynicfm: no sch file or directory
12:39 cynicfm: maybe its different on arch
12:39 cynicfm: cat: /sys/kernel/debug/dri/1/pstate: No such file or directory
12:40 gnarface: see if there's other directories in /sys/kernel/debug/dri?
12:40 gnarface: i don't know for sure if it has to be 1
12:40 cynicfm: uhmm i i typed ls and there is 0 1 128 129
12:41 gnarface: try 0?
12:41 cynicfm: ok yeah 0 is okay
12:41 cynicfm: so now 0f core 270-862 mgz memory 5010 mhz i wanna try that one
12:41 gnarface: the example in my scrollback 1, i don't know why
12:42 cynicfm: yeah i remember it was 1
12:42 cynicfm: okay ill echo
12:42 gnarface: echo '0f' > /sys/kernel/debug/dri/1/pstate
12:43 gnarface: er, sorry
12:43 gnarface: echo '0f' > /sys/kernel/debug/dri/0/pstate
12:43 gnarface: that would work
12:43 cynicfm: so echo 0f /sys/kernel/debug/dri/0/pstate??
12:43 gnarface: the > is necessary
12:44 gnarface: the ' ''s are not
12:45 cynicfm: ok w8
12:47 cynicfm: okay done
12:47 cynicfm: and nothing happened
12:47 cynicfm: sorry disconnected again ;D
12:47 gnarface: did you crash or did just nothing happen?
12:47 cynicfm: yeah i did
12:47 cynicfm: ;D
12:47 cynicfm: it happens ;D
12:47 gnarface: so wait
12:47 cynicfm: uhh i mean
12:47 cynicfm: disconnected from irc
12:47 cynicfm: but nothing happened
12:47 cynicfm: OS didnt crash
12:48 cynicfm: it happens that irc disconnects sometimes
12:48 gnarface: "nothing happened" would be the expected outcome in this case if it worked right
12:48 gnarface: we wouldn't expect a report
12:48 gnarface: try quake2 again
12:48 cynicfm: yeah i think its 0f now but i dont how to chek im gonna download supertuxkart and play it under dri_prime=1 and see any difference
12:48 gnarface: glxgears?
12:48 cynicfm: uhh that wasn't quake 2 it was different one i don't remember game but had similar issues with supertuxkart
12:48 gnarface: quake3?
12:49 cynicfm: yeah im gonna get supertuxkart ;P
12:49 cynicfm: ill download it
12:49 cynicfm: cuz that had similar issue
12:49 cynicfm: its 500mb but i have quite fast internet connection
12:50 gnarface: ioquake3 is in the debian repos too
12:50 cynicfm: uhh im not on debian now im on arch
12:50 gnarface: it might be i arch as well
12:50 gnarface: in arch
12:51 cynicfm: yeah maybe there is but it wasnt quake it was game similar to quake i dont remember name
12:51 gnarface: you can probably still download urbanterror from somewhere too
12:51 cynicfm: okay its installing now supertuxkart
12:51 gnarface: oh
12:51 gnarface: xonotic?
12:52 cynicfm: oh yeah
12:52 cynicfm: nice game
12:52 cynicfm: ok im gonna run supertux now
12:52 cynicfm: with dri_prime=1
12:52 gnarface: good luck
12:54 cynicfm: yeah it should run better now after echo??
12:54 cynicfm: id suspect
12:54 gnarface: that's the theory if the reclocking works
12:55 cynicfm: okay well
12:55 cynicfm: its same. its such a shame i bought laptop that has nvidia geforce 940mx id suspect that supertuxkart would run on max details...
12:55 cynicfm: i feel like i paid 500 bucks with laptop with i5 4gb ram and intel 620 (with nvidia geforce 940mx that i cant use)
12:55 cynicfm: :(
12:55 cynicfm: for laptop*
12:56 gnarface: what does this one tell you? cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor
12:56 cynicfm: powersave
12:56 gnarface: hehe
12:57 gnarface: how many times does it say performance? count them
12:57 gnarface: er, powersave
12:57 cynicfm: 4
12:57 gnarface: you gotta change that to performance
12:57 cynicfm: yeah that sounds like obvious thing but only if i knew how...
12:57 gnarface: with echo
12:58 gnarface: the same way you set 0f pstate
12:58 cynicfm: hmm
12:58 cynicfm: echo performance > dir??
12:58 gnarface: yes, try this, it will be more obvious: ls -l /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor
12:59 gnarface: they don't actually all have to be set to the same thing
12:59 cynicfm: okay so what about this ls -l
12:59 gnarface: did you run it?
12:59 cynicfm: yeah
12:59 gnarface: cpu0
13:00 gnarface: cpu1
13:00 gnarface: etc...
13:00 cynicfm: yeah
13:00 gnarface: one for each cpu
13:00 cynicfm: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2096
13:00 cynicfm: 4096*
13:00 cynicfm: and date
13:00 cynicfm: yeah
13:00 gnarface: that means only root can write to them
13:00 cynicfm: fine :)
13:00 gnarface: echo 'performance' > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor
13:00 gnarface: i don't know if you can use *
13:00 gnarface: i think you can't
13:01 gnarface: but you can set them all one by one
13:01 cynicfm: yes ill try
13:02 cynicfm: okay its all performance now
13:02 cynicfm: do u think that would make a difference im gonna check
13:02 gnarface: try it, i don't know
13:03 gnarface: i'm assuming your mesa install is fine because you said the intel gpu gets higher framerates
13:03 cynicfm: nah its not like from tearing performance it suddenly goes to super smooth ;P
13:03 cynicfm: yeah it does
13:05 cynicfm: but it was same on devuan
13:05 cynicfm: weird how linux games have worse performance than diablo 3 had...
13:06 cynicfm: omg disconnected
13:06 cynicfm: this virgin media wifi router sucks so badly
13:06 gnarface: you do seem to be having an issue
13:07 gnarface: i don't know for sure that diablo3 wasn't using the intel gpu too, do you?
13:07 gnarface: so there's that
13:07 gnarface: but you're right, something could still be weird here, if performance is still very different
13:07 cynicfm: i had DRI_PRIME=1 in list of arguments in b.net app and also was running 32 bit
13:07 gnarface: ah
13:08 cynicfm: yeah i was playing diablo 3 in quite normal resolution and had 50-60 fps with high settings
13:08 cynicfm: supertuxkart tears very much on high
13:08 cynicfm: and i think the issue is having 2 gpu's :S
13:08 gnarface: the driver would have both a 32-bit and 64-bit components that are separate and you'd need the 64-bit ones for supertuxcart probably
13:08 cynicfm: yeah hmm...
13:08 cynicfm: is xf86-video-nouveau 32 or 64
13:09 gnarface: on arch linux?
13:09 gnarface: i have no idea
13:09 gnarface: or antix or whatever you said
13:09 gnarface: artix
13:09 gnarface: sorry
13:10 cynicfm: yeah
13:10 cynicfm: ok no worries
13:11 cynicfm: yeah this distro doesnt have rich list of packages like devuan did
13:11 cynicfm: i think its because its quite fresh distro i think they only started it last year
13:11 gnarface: could it be a 32-bit-only install?
13:11 cynicfm: yeah i don't know what xf86 means here
13:12 gnarface: what type of framerates do you get from glxgears with it, i'm just curious?
13:13 cynicfm: dri_prime=1 glxgears 60.643 60.053 etc
13:13 cynicfm: to be fair normal glxgears is the same
13:13 gnarface: hmm
13:14 gnarface: look like vsync is on
13:14 gnarface: vblank_mode=0 dri_prime=1 glxgears
13:14 gnarface: does it have to be DRI_PRIME?
13:14 gnarface: can it even be lower-cased?
13:15 gnarface: it might be case-sensitive
13:15 gnarface: try it like this: DRI_PRIME=1 vblank_mode=0
13:15 gnarface: er, sorry: DRI_PRIME=1 vblank_mode=0 glxgears
13:15 cynicfm: yeah it is
13:15 cynicfm: ok
13:17 cynicfm: ok well
13:17 cynicfm: ill copy paste to debian paste
13:18 cynicfm: https://paste.debian.net/1053704/
13:20 gnarface: hmm
13:20 gnarface: that is disappointingly low
13:20 cynicfm: yeah
13:20 gnarface: maybe the gpu reclocking isn't working?
13:20 cynicfm: i dont know what can i do
13:20 gnarface: me either
13:20 cynicfm: maybe...
13:21 gnarface: is that at the glxgears default window size?
13:21 gnarface: or did you fullscreen it?
13:21 cynicfm: maybe i can sell my laptop and buy different one but nobody gonna pay more than 150 bucks... ;/
13:21 cynicfm: default
13:21 gnarface: eh, there's a lot of people in your position... where there's a will there is a way...
13:22 cynicfm: yeah but i like this laptop the only issue is two graphics card
13:22 cynicfm: i know that bumblebee and proprietary drivers were ok but i dont wanna mess with that again ;/
13:22 gnarface: mesa version updates could help
13:22 cynicfm: its not really linux laptop
13:22 gnarface: what version of mesa did you have?
13:22 cynicfm: 18.2.5-1
13:23 gnarface: that shoudl be fine
13:23 gnarface: sometimes reporting a different opengl version might help...
13:23 gnarface: try this: glxinfo |grep opengl -i
13:23 gnarface: pastebin the output of that^
13:25 cynicfm: yeah what about that ;P
13:25 cynicfm: perhaps i should try to get some money for better linux laptop but well at least i can use it and its not just about games anyways, but its disappointing that i have laptop with 940mx nvidia and performance so low
13:25 cynicfm: nvidia give me my money back!! hahah
13:26 gnarface: the gpu reclocking still might not be working
13:26 gnarface: don't forget to put your cpu back in powersave mode
13:28 cynicfm: you know since i am on arch i can try get bumblebee because i can use it with nouveau and see if that changes anything
13:29 gnarface: wait
13:29 gnarface: the other pstates, did you try any of htem to see if they helped?
13:30 gnarface: the other gpu clocking settings?
13:30 gnarface: did you only try 0f?
13:30 cynicfm: no i havent
13:30 gnarface: does the cat output ever change?
13:30 cynicfm: ok lemme try
13:30 gnarface: try other states, see if the cat output changes when you check it after
13:32 cynicfm: well yeah the only difference is the AC DC * thng
13:34 cynicfm: yeah i have bumblebee available and i can also download bbswitch nvidia nvidia-390xx and 340xx primus lib32-virtualgl lib32-primus but i think fk it... i think nvidia drivers and bumblebee is quite a mess
13:34 cynicfm: its nvidia fault anyways not nouveau or linux
13:37 gnarface: this could be a problem with glxgears
13:37 gnarface: did you try supertuxcart with DRI_PRIME=1 and vblank_mode=0
13:37 gnarface: ?
13:38 cynicfm: DRI_PRIME=1 vblank_mode=0 supertuxcart??
13:38 gnarface: i guess
13:38 cynicfm: btw what gpu is best for open source nouveau drivers??
13:39 gnarface: 780Ti
13:39 cynicfm: im tempted to try build own linux pc from parts
13:39 cynicfm: do you know how to build a pc, gnarface from scratch?
13:40 gnarface: yes
13:40 cynicfm: yeah i dont have jobs or any income but i can always try save up some cash to buy parts
13:41 cynicfm: that would be exciting to build linux pc
13:41 cynicfm: :)
13:41 cynicfm: yeah i tried vblank_mode but still the same ;d
13:41 cynicfm: its okay ;D
13:41 gnarface: i'm really sorry this happened to you
13:41 gnarface: i would have warned you not to get one of these laptops
13:41 gnarface: would you have listened, though?
13:42 cynicfm: to be fair at the time i didnt even want to install linux
13:42 cynicfm: honestly guy adviced me to get this laptop
13:44 cynicfm: but its hard to get nice laptop that would run well with open source anyways
13:44 cynicfm: i can of course install nvidia drivers and be happy but screw it
13:44 cynicfm: so what im trying to say i didnt buy laptop for linux in mind
13:44 cynicfm: but i think i can build a pc for linux in mind though
13:45 gnarface: you could have two installs, one with nouveau/mesa and the other with proprietary/bumblebee
13:45 gnarface: then you could switch to one for gaming
13:45 cynicfm: you mean two linuxes?? yeah thats true
13:46 cynicfm: the nice thing about artix is it installs within like 4 minutes
13:46 cynicfm: ;D
13:46 cynicfm: devuan is like 30-40 minutes for me
13:46 gnarface: seems about normal
13:46 cynicfm: actually that's good idea and i think im gonna try install it now
13:46 cynicfm: btw what would you recommend OpenRC or runnit??
13:46 gnarface: i like sysvinit
13:47 cynicfm: yeah this artix offers openrc or runnit
13:47 gnarface: openrc is fie
13:47 gnarface: openrc is fine, i don't know runnit
13:48 cynicfm: where do you think i would be able to order this 780 Ti??
13:48 cynicfm: also can you tell me any specific motherboards model for thsi card????
13:48 gnarface: it's an old card i don't know if you'll still be able to find them easily
13:49 cynicfm: yeah they're on ebay but preowned
13:49 gnarface: finding a board with the right pci-e slot shouldn't be hard, you'll need to have the right power supply too though
13:50 cynicfm: oh yeah true
13:50 imirkin: cynicfm: dunno if it's been covered already, but the best nvidia card to use with open-source drivers is an AMD one :)
13:50 imirkin: give your money to AMD, which actually cares about open-source
13:50 cynicfm: yeah AMD
13:50 cynicfm: AMD instead of intel as well??
13:50 imirkin: intel doesn't make add-on boards
13:50 cynicfm: oh right
13:50 imirkin: if the on-board is an option, that's good too
13:51 cynicfm: isn't amd processors like itenl
13:51 imirkin: i'm talking about their graphics cards, which is a separate product line from their CPUs
13:51 imirkin: although they do have some APU's which have onboard graphics as well
13:51 cynicfm: oh right sorry its confusing :D
13:51 cynicfm: so any AMD gpu is good for open source??
13:52 imirkin: anything you can buy in stores nowadays, probably. GCN or later.
13:52 cynicfm: whats confusing me is what motherboard to get...
13:52 imirkin: you can ask in #radeon for specific recommendations
13:52 cynicfm: is it the slot GDDR5 thing so if gpu has GDDR5 i should get motherboard with GDDR5 slot??
13:52 gnarface: i'm sure #gamingonlinux will have advice too
13:53 imirkin: slot is a PCIe slot.
13:53 imirkin: motherboard memory has nothign to do with add-on card memory
13:53 cynicfm: okay well thanks
13:53 cynicfm: oh ok
13:55 cynicfm: yeah this acer isn't nice open source laptop hahah ;p
14:03 cynicfm: yeah you know but this is the thing pc consumes much more electricity than laptop
14:03 cynicfm: when im poor id better use laptop than PC
20:34 fling: Looks like it works fine!
20:35 fling: Is it a bad idea to run X on both nouveau and ast?
20:37 airlied: it likely wont work
20:38 fling: but why?
20:38 fling: also I see tearing in glxgears
20:44 airlied: the ast adapter is just a dumb pcie thi g
20:44 airlied: i dont think it can scanout stuff the nvidia renders
20:46 fling: airlied: and even if I will try and make it work then it will work terrible and will slow things up a lot right?
21:31 airlied: fling: yes