02:29 Sslasher: hi
02:32 gnarface: hi
02:32 Sslasher: i'm trying to run an older version of world of warcraft through wine, on a geforce 7600 gs using the nouveau driver. the image constantly flickers, and i see insane shapes in the flickering frames, as though the frame buffer is showing while being redrawn, or something. is there any special configuration i need to perform? thanks in advance
02:32 Sslasher: i realize i might need to ask "wine people", but it's worth a shot
02:32 gnarface: i'm shocked you even got it to run
02:32 gnarface: i can't offer any advice
02:33 gnarface: well
02:33 gnarface: i can offer one piece of advice; try a newer kernel & xorg version
02:33 gnarface: but don't expect much
02:33 Sslasher: i have the latest kernel and xorg versions
02:34 gnarface: for the record, i started having graphical corruptions in world of warcraft with the official drivers too after the last major update
02:34 Sslasher: does the proprietary driver just work better all around? it seems tricky to get _that_ to work right now, because it's "legacy" now
02:35 gnarface: in general for supported cards for the current versions of the proprietary driver, yes, but your card is old enough that you'd need to use the legacy proprietary driver which is much less well maintained
02:35 gnarface: so the actual outcome for you would be hit and miss on both
02:36 gnarface: but again, citing the graphical corruptions i've experienced recently on the proprietary driver with an old albeit ostensibly "still supported" card (just barely) my only working solution was to resort to DXVK
02:36 Sslasher: ok. i guess i'll try asking in... wherever wine people are, and then i'll try to install the legacy driver
02:36 Sslasher: oh, what's that?
02:37 gnarface: basically it's a couple rewritten wine directX dlls that translate to Vulkan instead of OpenGL. it gave me a significant performance boost *and* sidestepped all the graphical corruptions
02:37 Sslasher: but are you saying that... after 10+ years since its release, there are still issues with nouveau on a 7600 gs? or with all models?
02:38 Sslasher: i had imagined that the older cards would be the ones to work well with an open source driver, if any
02:38 Sslasher: i haven't tried linux in some years
02:38 gnarface: here, let me dig up the feature matrix for you
02:38 gnarface: https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix/
02:38 gnarface: general synopsis is that the 700 series works pretty well but nothing is *completely* supported.
02:39 gnarface: and yes, it's sad
02:39 gnarface: and yes, even the nouveau maintainers will now even tell you not to buy nvidia hardware
02:39 Sslasher: i think this one is NV4B
02:40 Sslasher: does that correspond to the column labelled NV40, there?
02:40 gnarface: however, understand that your problem with "world of warcraft" specficially may be above and beyond normal wine/nvidia/nouveau issues.
02:40 Sslasher: ok, sure
02:40 gnarface: the last major update overhauled the graphics engine in a non-reverse-compatible way
02:41 gnarface: you might find other games working fine
02:41 Sslasher: i mean, i swapped in a radeon 4850 a few days ago, and it was working fine (with the open source drivers)
02:41 gnarface: i'm not sure about the specs on that card but it's almost guaranteed that you'll have better luck with AMD hardware these days
02:41 Sslasher: yeah, that's what i'm gathering
02:41 Sslasher: is there a simple way that i can test 3d functionality, not in wine? beyond glxgears
02:42 Sslasher: glxgears... works
02:43 orbea: Sslasher: run dolphin-emu? :P
02:43 Sslasher: (on that feature matrix, it says that everything that matters is 'done')
02:43 gnarface: well there are other glx test tools in that suite of mesa tools
02:43 gnarface: there's also native Steam games
02:43 gnarface: as well as ioquake3
02:43 Sslasher: suggest one of those test tools?
02:44 gnarface: Sslasher: note that "power management" includes the ability to take the card out of default powersaving mode, so everything that matters *is not done*
02:44 gnarface: without that, no gpu or memory reclocking support
02:44 gnarface: no fan control
02:44 Sslasher: right, but you'd think that 'only' causes performance problems
02:44 gnarface: oh
02:45 gnarface: yes, right, that's true
02:45 gnarface: but they'll be *crippling* performance problems in WoW
02:45 Sslasher: haha :) ok
02:45 gnarface: even if you get the graphical situation sorted
02:45 gnarface: hmm
02:45 gnarface: Steam for linux, big picture mode
02:45 gnarface: that's a good way to expose some nouveau bugs for sure
02:45 Sslasher: i tell you, ~15 years ago i would've never thought i'd one day favor ATI
02:46 Sslasher: they were the ones with driver problems, always
02:46 Sslasher: but it's starting to look like that, on linux at least
02:46 gnarface: someone over there must have got hit with a clue stick
02:46 Sslasher: i've never installed steam on linux, i could try
02:47 Sslasher: thanks for your input already, anyhow
02:47 gnarface: Intel and AMD now both contribute heavily to MESA and the kernel to move their own driver quality and compatibility and performance forward, while NVidia continues to stagnate in the exact same place it was about 2 years after they first started "supporting" Linux
02:47 Sslasher: yeah i've read a bit about that
02:48 Sslasher: i guess they're betting hard on windows
02:48 gnarface: yea they're obviously still primarily loyal to Microsoft, but Linux people, especially people with very old or very new cards, are starting to notice discrepancies in what they say they can or will do and what they actually do
02:49 gnarface: oh
02:50 gnarface: not to shill for Valve, but there are several OpenGL games on Steam that are free you could try
02:50 gnarface: DOTA2 and TF2 come to mind
02:50 gnarface: but if you have access to the right files you can also just test opengl with ioquake3
02:50 gnarface: (which should be in most distros' repos)
02:51 orbea: or dolphin-emu :)
02:51 gnarface: yea, or dolphin-emu
02:51 Sslasher: dolphin-emu is in these repos, i'll try that, lol
02:51 gnarface: there are also a handful of opengl xscreensavers
02:51 gnarface: those can be a good test
02:51 Sslasher: i think i've never played a gamecube game, ever
02:52 gnarface: oh wow, i feel sad for you
02:52 gnarface: such good stuff on that one
02:52 gnarface: and dolphin-emu can play them in HD :)
02:53 gnarface: obviously it's worth mentioning that glxinfo will give you a dump of detected capabilities but i can't myself make heads nor tails of it
02:53 Sslasher: neither can i
02:53 gnarface: *sometimes* you can do stuff to make nouveau work better like use environment variables to force it to report a specific OpenGL version
02:54 gnarface: sometimes that fixes stuff
02:54 gnarface: unfortunately i don't know specifics, you'll have to google them or wait here for someone more knowledgeable to wake up
02:54 Sslasher: ok, that was the kind of thing i was hoping to find here, maybe
02:54 Sslasher: brb
03:00 Sslasher: i need to afk for a while, thanks again, will try a non-wine app
03:02 gnarface: no problem, good luck
04:14 imirkin: Sslasher: i haven't read the entire backlog, but the nv30 nouveau GL driver is horrendously bad
04:14 imirkin: [this driver handles both nv3x and nv4x hw - they're quite similar]
04:15 imirkin: i also haven't tested it in a while, and these things tend to bitrot as well
04:15 imirkin: and yes - stay away from nvidia for your next purchase.
04:17 imirkin: if you're a software engineer, i could probably get you started on figuring out how to fix whatever's wrong
04:17 imirkin: otherwise that time investment would fall on me, and i just don't have it.
04:18 imirkin: joepublic: if you're looking to eke out the last bit of perf from that board, you can also have a look at the NvBoost option in the config param
04:39 Sslasher: imirkin: ah, thanks for the input. i am a programmer, but i've never looked at drivers, i doubt it'd be worth the time and effort
04:40 Sslasher: i'd still hear you out though, out of curiosity - if you like
04:46 imirkin: nope, that's quite alright :)
04:54 Sslasher: haha, ok
13:44 joepublic: imirkin, thanks. I'll try NvBoost=1. I note that NvBoost is documented at https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/KernelModuleParameters/
13:52 karolherbst: joepublic: you can even set it to 2 ;)
13:53 karolherbst: it's mostly safe as you really have to hit a specific workload to get the gpu to produce a lot of heat
13:53 joepublic: I'll also try 2. Thanks.
13:53 joepublic: "Mostly safe" is completely within my comfort envelope.
13:54 karolherbst: just check the temperature of the GPU
13:54 joepublic: I have a conky widget on one of my monitors that shows me coretemp and GPU temp at all times
13:54 karolherbst: I know that some benchmarks are able to put a really high load on the gpu
13:54 karolherbst: ahh, k
13:56 karolherbst: on some GPUs it doesn't make much of a difference or even none at all
13:57 joepublic: I'll look at what clocks it claims, what glmark2 benchmark framerates say, compare them.
14:48 RSpliet: mwk: do you happen to know what prebrk and brk do with/on the control stack? The G80 docs mention a "thread status" register which indicates "brk,ret,exit". Does that still exist on GF100+?
14:54 RSpliet: I presume prebrk pushes an address onto the ctrl stack. When it's popped, thread state should revert from brk to active. I guess my lack of understanding is on what triggers a pop
14:57 RSpliet: Loops are transformed to have the invariant not branch if true, but brk if false. So I could interpret the situation as "on brk, pop if all threads are inactive". I am seeing some funky behaviour though when I try to nest loops
15:00 RSpliet: And if that pop happened to be an entry of type "brk", restore the thread status such that breaks in the inner loop are cleared and breaks from the outer loop are retained.
18:34 yifanlu: Hi, I’m from the amd hackintosh project. We’ve noticed that nvidia gpus on amd hackintosh running nvidia drivers have significant performance degradation (no issues on intel). We were wondering if any experts here might have an idea of what the issue might be.
19:13 joepublic: Well, nouveau: unknown parameter 'NvBoost' ignored, http://paste.debian.net/1051735/
19:14 mupuf: yifanlu: that's odd, but we don't really know the nvidia blolb that well
19:14 mupuf: At least, nothing obvious comes to mind here
19:18 yifanlu: okay thanks anyways
19:38 karolherbst: nice. fixed the shader eviction bug I had in my multi context fixes
19:38 karolherbst: joepublic: nouveau.config=NvBoost=
19:39 karolherbst: why are we doing that config thing though?
19:47 joepublic: Many thanks.