00:49 Lyude: oh wow
00:49 Lyude: i might actually have some time to work on nouveau again tomorrow, sweet
03:24 nbtenney: Lyude: don't jynx yourself. ;)
04:26 rhyskidd: mwk: did you see my latest comment on https://github.com/envytools/envytools/pull/106
04:27 rhyskidd: hopefully straight forward enough
08:33 karolherbst: Lyude: awesome!
14:28 anEpiov: hei
14:28 anEpiov: finally booted int 4.13 from 4.9
14:29 anEpiov: what I am supposed to see? should I still have nouveau.pm=1 in kernel line?
15:08 imirkin_: anEpiov: don't think that ever was an option...
15:09 imirkin_: anEpiov: depending on which hw you have, you might have gotten no benefit at all, or gone from "no acceleration" to "acceleration".
17:28 karolherbst: imirkin_: reclocking fixes
17:29 imirkin_: not for an NV5...
17:29 karolherbst: ohh right
17:30 imirkin_: hence my point of "it depends on your hw"
17:30 karolherbst: true
17:35 karolherbst: anyhow, I thought a little about that u_blitter thing and I think it would be better to go with corectness until we figure how to properly do the resolves and everything. I will still spend some time to use the 2d copy engine, but if I don't find a way to get it woring properly, the best we can do for now is to fallback to u_blitter if that isn't too much of work in the end. But it sounds like this is just a
17:36 karolherbst: common 3d blitter used across many drivers within mesa?
17:36 karolherbst: or gallium
17:36 imirkin_: it's used by a bunch of drivers
17:36 imirkin_: as-is, i don't think it'll work with nouveau, but probably doable to make it work
17:36 imirkin_: (i suspect it requires some amd-only features for layered copies)
17:36 karolherbst: I mean, I am all for using dedicated hardware if it's faster/more efficient in the end
17:37 karolherbst: but having broken stuff doesn't help the user in the end if it's faster, but broken
17:37 imirkin_: is it broken though?
17:37 karolherbst: well, if multisampling comes into play, yes
17:37 imirkin_: find an app.
17:37 imirkin_: where something is broken.
17:38 gnarface: should be trivial with a copy of wine and wow
17:38 karolherbst: well the thing is, if we want to pass the CTS and report 4.5 we kind of need to fix those tests as well
17:38 imirkin_: then that's a totally different argument
17:38 karolherbst: doesn't matter if any application actually needs it
17:38 imirkin_: than "it's broken for users"
17:38 karolherbst: okay, right
17:38 imirkin_: find consistent arguments :p
17:38 karolherbst: but we don't know if something hits it
17:38 gnarface: but i bet wow will hit it
17:39 karolherbst: maybe?
17:39 gnarface: and every single other deformity
17:39 karolherbst: maybe not?
17:39 imirkin_: gnarface: afaik WoW works great with nouveau
17:39 karolherbst: I can't test it
17:39 gnarface: imirkin_: guaranteed it renders stuff visibly wrong
17:39 imirkin_: gnarface: this would be the first time i hear of it
17:39 karolherbst: well, some blit related tests fail in piglit not because of glReadPixels returns garbage, so there is a chance that _something_ which uses those features is broken, but mhhh
17:40 imirkin_: people did complain about a weird text rendering issue for the license which turned out to be some weird thing that iirc i fixed
17:40 gnarface: imirkin_: some of that is wine's fault itself, some of that is blizzards, but the visual comparison is obvious. you just don't get a lot of people with the expertise, time, and equipment to make an informed complaint about it, or even care for that matter
17:40 imirkin_: gnarface: could be
17:40 karolherbst: well
17:41 gnarface: imirkin_: it doesn't help that it's against the WoW TOS to share screenshots :-/
17:41 karolherbst: I would put it behind an environmental variable anyhow
17:41 imirkin_: seriously?
17:41 karolherbst: gnarface: who cares
17:41 karolherbst: gnarface: you can share them privately anytime anyhow
17:41 gnarface: yes, but it holds back bug reporting at winehq
17:41 imirkin_: lame.
17:41 karolherbst: lame.
17:42 gnarface: agreed.
17:42 gnarface: anyway, just saying that's why there's not a lot of noise about it.
17:42 karolherbst: share an apitrace
17:42 karolherbst: is recording of API calls against the TOS?
17:42 gnarface: most people using wine for wow are just happy when they can log in. they tend to stomach rendering inaccuracies
17:43 gnarface: dunno about API trace calls, i think actually that's ok.
17:43 karolherbst: ;)
17:45 karolherbst: apitrace under wine is kind of annoying though
17:45 karolherbst: but meh
17:45 karolherbst: gnarface: did they actually closed accounts due to sharing screenshots?
17:48 karolherbst: oh wow :O fuck those guys. They watermark the ingame screenshots and put user information into those
17:51 Guest23869: 3
17:53 gnarface: karolherbst: dunno it was just something they used to warn about since very early on when posting to the winehq appdb, so i presume that knowledge spread through the community because a few people DID get their accounts banned, just nobody i know personally.
17:54 Llmiseyhaa: Huh, just peered at the TOS and it's not in there.
17:54 Llmiseyhaa: That's not to say they _won't_ ban people over it, just it's not in there.
17:54 gnarface: karolherbst, imirkin_ also worth noting, if you heard people say "nouveau works great with wine" they were probably actually using wine-gallium-nine which bypasses opengl entirely
17:55 gnarface: karolherbst: it might be under some clause about reverse-engineering, which would make API traces a risk too actually...
17:58 karolherbst: gnarface: well, what I found is that they put user information into screenshots, also server IPs ;) and a lot of other stuff, like used software and sys specs
17:58 karolherbst: that's reason enough to warn about it
18:01 imirkin_: gnarface: yeah, i think there's a combination of things going on. i try not to ask any questions ;)
18:04 karolherbst: gnarface: well, would be cool if a user could actually try stuff and share traces in secret
18:22 Guest23869: what better on debian stretch nouveau or nvida?
18:23 gnarface: depends a lot more on the card than the distro
18:23 imirkin_: if you're asking the question, chances are "nvidia" is universally the answer.
18:24 Guest23869: nvidia gt720m
18:27 Guest23869: i recently have lag in gnome animation i think it 's because new update that installed
18:30 Guest23869: any suggestion what i should do?
18:30 gnarface: complain to gnome or your distro
18:30 gnarface: installing nvidia won't fix this
18:31 gnarface: installing nouveau won't, i mean
18:31 imirkin_: get help from a support channel that has resources to respond to someone with your technical level
18:31 gnarface: installing nvidia MIGHT if you're not already running it
18:31 gnarface: if you're already running nvidia though, your only practical option is to file a bug report and switch window managers to something less bloated
18:32 gnarface: (expecting here the Gnome people can't fix performance problems to save their lives)
18:32 imirkin_: gnarface: i've been telling people to switch to WindowMaker for a long time... but they just won't listen.
18:32 gnarface: hah
18:32 gnarface: e17 is really nice still
18:32 gnarface: (if you disable compositing)
18:33 gnarface: (with compositing on, YMMV)
18:33 imirkin_: what was the E version that took forever to come out? e14?
18:33 imirkin_: and people were forever running alphas
18:34 Llmiseyhaa: I love me some WindowMaker
18:34 Llmiseyhaa: but I'm too lazy to build a stack with it and compositing and stuff
18:34 Llmiseyhaa: so I just use xfce now-a-days. With the B5 theme, because I'm weird and tab titlebars are great
18:34 imirkin_: "stack"? "compositing"?
18:34 Llmiseyhaa: Well, last I saw (please tell me I'm wrong now), WindowMaker doesn't have a compositor component.
18:34 imirkin_: why would it?
18:35 Llmiseyhaa: So I'd need to get a separate compositor and get everything configured to work together and such.
18:35 imirkin_: what for?
18:35 Llmiseyhaa: I like compositing.
18:35 imirkin_: can always run ...
18:35 imirkin_: xcompmgr
18:35 imirkin_: just remember that when you run it and forget to background it, hitting ^Z in that shell is *not* a good idea.
18:35 Llmiseyhaa: Well sure, that's basically what I said; but I've been too lazy to get that configured just how I want it along with everything else and stuff.
18:36 imirkin_: about as good of an idea as attaching to X with gdb from within an xterm
18:36 imirkin_:has done both
18:36 Llmiseyhaa: Wheeeefun that one yeah
18:36 imirkin_: the screen freezes and you *immediately* realize your mistake
18:36 imirkin_: and ... there's nothing you can do
18:37 BernhardPosselt: hi, do you guys support wayland yet?
18:37 gnarface: imirkin_: i think it was e17, but then he got hired by Samsung somewhere in there and now they're up to e22
18:37 imirkin_: BernhardPosselt: wayland's a protocol afaik... nothing for nouveau to support
18:38 imirkin_: gnarface: this was like ... 2002
18:38 BernhardPosselt: imirkin_: right, there are some protocols that wayland uses, dont remember atm
18:38 BernhardPosselt: sec
18:38 imirkin_: BernhardPosselt: do you mean like weston?
18:38 gnarface: imirkin_: oh, then maybe you're thinking of e16
18:38 BernhardPosselt: imirkin_: gnome
18:38 imirkin_: gnarface: yeah. that's most likely.
18:39 imirkin_: BernhardPosselt: well ultimately i'm not sure - i don't use it myself.
18:39 imirkin_: i haven't heard any *loud* complaints about it specifically, but perhaps people are sick of yelling
18:41 gnarface: i still have e16 installed here too actually
18:41 gnarface: works nice
18:41 imirkin_: yeah, 16 actually sounds pretty familiar
18:41 gnarface: compositing features are a little more primitive
18:42 gnarface: it's been patched up a bit though, someone outside of #e took over maintenance i think
18:42 imirkin_: Version 0.17, also referred to as E17, was in development for 12 years starting in December 2000[6] until 21 December 2012
18:42 imirkin_: ok. so it was probably the 17alpha actually. ok.
18:42 imirkin_: crazy.
18:42 gnarface: hah
18:42 gnarface: crazy
18:42 gnarface: i didn't start running e17 until around 2009 or so i think
18:43 imirkin_: BernhardPosselt: if you find any issues, feel free to report them
18:43 imirkin_: BernhardPosselt: i believe that GLAMOR is used for providing X emulation, which afaik is buggy on nouveau, so the experience may not be great. not sure exactly.
18:44 gnarface: BernhardPosselt: last i heard it was nvidia proprietary that refused to change their stuff to let it work with weston/wayland, everyone else is on board with it.
18:45 gnarface: BernhardPosselt: (i'm curious to know what you find out too)
18:46 BernhardPosselt: gnarface: right
18:46 BernhardPosselt: they have some beta support that you can enable in the latest driver
18:46 BernhardPosselt: didnt sound very convincing though
18:47 gnarface: interesting
18:47 imirkin_: EGLStream's somehow entered that discussion afaik
18:47 imirkin_: no clue what they are
18:47 imirkin_: beyond some nvidia thing that they jammed through the official approval process
18:54 BernhardPosselt: well, gonna try out if nouveau works better
19:02 BernhardPosselt: wayland works
19:02 BernhardPosselt: unfortunately im getting screen flickering though on xorg and wayland
19:02 imirkin_: do you have mesa 17.2.x?
19:05 BernhardPosselt: extra/mesa 17.2.2-1 [installed]
19:05 BernhardPosselt: its mostly visible on dark gray areas
22:03 imirkin_: skeggsb: did you see the GM204 address transaction failure thing?
22:04 skeggsb: yeah, it's not a different bit, i wrote it on a gm20x i believe
22:04 imirkin_: bleh.
22:04 skeggsb: not sure what to do about this particular issue tbh, could revert all boards to our custom i2c-over-aux algo, but i'm not sure that won't break MST
22:04 imirkin_: just use rand() to pick it
22:05 skeggsb: hehehe
22:05 imirkin_: that way it'll work sometimes
22:05 skeggsb: is it bad that that idea sounds tempting?
22:05 imirkin_: can the generic thing not be taught to "not do that"?
22:06 skeggsb: possibly, don't know. i should look more at what nvidia do on those boards
22:14 imirkin_: =/
22:55 anEpiov: fans still 100% in kernel 4.13