01:05imirkin_: karolherbst. no clue - the COPY stuff is weird too.
01:06imirkin_: ben would know better how it works - he debugged it.
01:06imirkin_: negative pitch perhaps allows you to do a copy backwards?
01:06imirkin_: that's a -984 pitch...
01:07imirkin_: dunno if that makes sense.
04:30contrabay: here are personalities who'd want to take honor with synchronized jumps of the activity of another fellons,i am ignoring that confict shufflings, cause local heros who to treat are largely known
04:31contrabay: i.e as things are very primitive around additional programming and all in all I anyways do not want to spread the conflict in between random programmers on irc
11:41pmoreau: imirkin_, karolherbst, hakzsam: Friendly ping for reviewing https://patchwork.freedesktop.org/series/31280/ and https://patchwork.freedesktop.org/series/31548/ whenever you have time.
12:29karolherbst: pmoreau: will take a look this weekend
12:30karolherbst: ohh, those patches, right, yeah, will review those today/tomorrow
12:58TheXzoron: Would the GTX titan or GTX780TI perform better with things like dolphin-emu?
12:58TheXzoron: I'm looking for the most performant GPU to not require firmware
13:10karolherbst: TheXzoron: 780 Ti
13:10karolherbst: Titan Black might be faster, but...
13:11karolherbst: TheXzoron: those GPUs still require propritary firmware for video acceleration (VDPAU), but all the other firmware is written by us and open source.
13:12karolherbst: TheXzoron: usually AMD is preferred if you want to use open source drivers, but they don't have any open source firmwares, so Nouveau is the only real choice in the end if you care about having as much as possible open source
13:14TheXzoron: Yeah I'm working on migrating over to as libre of hardware as I can for my general computing so this seems like my only option.
13:15karolherbst: TheXzoron: also on nouveau there is no automatic reclocking yet, but with a 4.12+ kernel reclocking on kepler GPUs is pretty stable. there are a few boards where it isn't but this could be tracked down in the end, because we have a few boards with those issues
13:15karolherbst: TheXzoron: the 780 ti fully reclocked is quite capable. There are a few games where nouveau just sucks, but that's how it is
13:16karolherbst: dolphin-emu is fine though. Maybe not the ubershaders, but we could optimize nouveau a little to have better perf there as well
13:16karolherbst: it's just low priority right now
13:16karolherbst: perf in general
13:18karolherbst: pmoreau: what happens if the shared memory usage isn't defined? wasting memory or something like that?
13:19TheXzoron: So when you say the titan black might be faster is it not completely supported yet?
13:20karolherbst: TheXzoron: well, it's the same hardware, but usually comes with higher clocks. for 40% more money you get like 5% more perf
13:20karolherbst: but you could also just run higher voltages on the 780ti and have a better fan or so
13:21karolherbst: maybe those titan blakcs boards are usually of a higher quality and clocks can be a bit higher, but it's not really worth it
13:22karolherbst: pmoreau: first series is reviewed-by
13:23karolherbst: pmoreau: for the second you get an acked-by
13:37TheXzoron: karolherbst: any advice on which brand to get that would have the best reclocking support
13:37karolherbst: TheXzoron: no clue
13:38TheXzoron: perhaps one that is clocked higher stock?
13:38karolherbst: Tom^ has a 780 Ti, which worked pretty well, but now has some oddness under nvidia, but not with nouveau
13:39karolherbst: TheXzoron: well, we can't make any recommendations yet. It can always be the case that the GPU hits something we don't support yet reclocking related
13:39karolherbst: but usually it works alright
13:39karolherbst: and sometimes issues are easy to fix
13:39karolherbst: and sometimes not
13:41Tom^: best reclocking support imo is the 780ti or the titan from that series
13:41Tom^: because of the performance and it actually working really well with nouveau :p
13:41TheXzoron: does reclocking also refer to overclocking?
13:41TheXzoron: making sure I have my terms right
13:43karolherbst: TheXzoron: well, those terms are pretty much the same on modern GPUs, but overclocking usually referes to setting votlage/clocks which aren't "enabled/configured" by the vbios
13:43Tom^: it means changing the clocks from what you get at boot. which is normally these days very low.
13:43karolherbst: with turbo boost the driver will set as high clocks as possible anyhow
13:43karolherbst: which some "smart" caps on higher temperatures to reduce the clocks automatically
13:44karolherbst: so reclocking: set a clock state supported by the vbios, overclocking: set higher clocks than "supported"
13:44Tom^: karolherbst: didnt 9xx and 10xx series get reclocking support. and just shove the gpu fan into a motherboard port?
13:45karolherbst: to get a stable experience you usually need a certain voltage for a certain clocks, otherwise the cores could become unstable and the GPU "crashes"
13:45karolherbst: Tom^: 9xx
13:45karolherbst: 10xx is a totally different kind of mess
13:45Tom^: oh i see
13:45karolherbst: 10xx: reclocking in firmware
13:45Tom^: ooh :(
13:46TheXzoron: out of curiosity how are the gtx 9xx series performing with firmware
13:46karolherbst: you can reclock them, but without the signed firmware, nouveau can't control the fans
13:47karolherbst: and the performance should be fairly good already
13:47karolherbst: but yeah... uncontrollable fans are kind of a big mess
13:47Tom^: just watercool it !
13:47karolherbst: or connect it with your motherboard and set the fans yourself or something
13:47karolherbst: I actually have patches to enable reclocking on those
13:48karolherbst: but this was more done with laptops in mind where the GPU fans are controlled by the motherboard EC anyway
13:48karolherbst: hence why I called that module parameter "NvFanless"
13:49karolherbst: also the maxwell 2 GPUs didn't get any serious testing with reclocking
13:49karolherbst: so it might be super unstable in practise
13:50TheXzoron: I'd imagine the firmware requirement turned people off from the maxwell+ series and people seeking performance went with AMD
13:50TheXzoron: or didn't upgrade
13:51Tom^: true that, im on a vega 56 now. :D
13:53karolherbst: at least on Linux
13:54karolherbst: but stability got much better with AMD on Linux as well
13:54karolherbst: they do a rather good job with the open source driver now
13:56TheXzoron: isn't there non-free driver just a beta basically
13:57TheXzoron: when linus is like "fix ur code nerd" and won't merge
13:57TheXzoron: or are there non-free extensions
13:58karolherbst: well, they aren't in the linux kernel tree
13:58karolherbst: nvidia I mean
13:59TheXzoron: I meant amd
14:09Tom^: yeah amd has the amd-staging-git repo
14:10Tom^: which is kind of required atm on vega for its DAL/DC patches
14:19karolherbst: Tom^: well, AMD has an open source driver now which is part of the official linux kernel tree
14:19Tom^: yeah, and amdgpu requires DAL/DC patches for hdmi audio and vega support.
14:19Tom^: which isnt merged yet
14:19karolherbst: well yeah
16:23imirkin: TheXzoron: i don't really see why people get upset about firmware being closed... they are upset because the firmware lives on their hard-drive, but they'd be happy if it lived inside a ROM on the board directly?
16:25imirkin: TheXzoron: the issue with nvidia is that they're just not releasing the firmware in a redistributable fashion. amd makes it fully redistributable, and released at the time of GPU release, not a year or two later.
16:25MaximLevitsky: is GTX 1080Ti supported in any way yet? :-)
16:26gnarface: imirkin: well having it be external firmware implies all the evil of the hardware plus the ability to cover their tracks later, or make it worse. in a sense, having to "commit" to it by putting it in the physical hardware in a way that it can't be changed implies greater trustworthyness. (but make no mistake, i'm opposed to closed *hardware* too)
16:26gnarface: it should all be open or none of it will ever be trustworhty
16:26imirkin: gnarface: so i suppose you'd be pretty against any intel chip past core2 or whenever they made microcode updateable?
16:26MaximLevitsky: Fully agree with that - closed hardware is half evil - at least it works since vendor can't fix it after the fact
16:26imirkin: MaximLevitsky: afaik it should work
16:27gnarface: imirkin: if by opposed you mean "fear and mistrust" yes
16:27MaximLevitsky: firmware = closed buggy hardware that vendor doesn't test since it can always be fixed
16:27gnarface: imirkin: frankly i'm not sure the ones before core2 are all that safe either. there were rumblings back then of evil stuff but most of it was just thought to be unique cpu id's that you could bios-disable
16:27imirkin: but ... the firmware's always going to be there. just a question of where it's being stored.
16:27MaximLevitsky: or more correctly the users test it
16:28imirkin: MaximLevitsky: are you having any specific issues with a GTX 1080Ti?
16:28MaximLevitsky: yes, I mean external and/or updateable firmware
16:28gnarface: imirkin: the question of where it's being stored DOES imply how they plan on USING it though. that's the thing. you go to a mall with a 20LB violin case, maybe it's just the world's heaviest violin, sure. MAYBE.
16:28MaximLevitsky: internal non updatable firmware == hardware
16:28gnarface: imirkin: the point is putting something that heavy in a violin case implies malicious intent
16:29imirkin: meh. i make the simpler equality... firmware == hardware.
16:29imirkin: [and yes, open hardware *would* be neat. no argument there.]
16:29MaximLevitsky: I didn't test nouveau on it yet, but will eventually
16:29imirkin: MaximLevitsky: afaik it should be fine... GP102 right?
16:30imirkin: MaximLevitsky: of course subject to the usual disclaimer of "slow as molasses" since no reclocking
16:30MaximLevitsky: That for sure...
16:30MaximLevitsky: I use it here mostly for GPU passthrough
16:31imirkin: and there are some pascal bugs rummaging around i think
16:32MaximLevitsky: I really really wish I had time for the fun I once had in the linux :-(
16:32MaximLevitsky: I got my degree, got work (boring one as usual) have finally money, and have no time - story of all of us I guess :-(
16:32imirkin: don't we all.
16:33gnarface: what i wouldn't do for having both the time and the money at once...
16:33imirkin: gnarface: if you get enough money, it becomes easier to make time ;)
16:33imirkin: [depends on one's personality though]
16:33gnarface: hah, well in a sense that is true
16:33imirkin: some people want MOAR
16:34MaximLevitsky: Forked lot of money on my PC mostly to play oculus rift, but at the end what I really want is good old RE and linux problem solving
16:34imirkin: MaximLevitsky: it's the ultimate strategy game :)
16:34MaximLevitsky: I managed to make VR run inside a VM such as it works perfectly
16:35MaximLevitsky: Yet, instead of enjoying games I find more stuff to solve...
16:36MaximLevitsky: Today I was working on making double suspend work - that is I first suspend to ram the VM which makes it save at least some of the nvidia's state to ram and then suspend the host
16:37MaximLevitsky: And it almost works, only sometimes fails
16:37MaximLevitsky: I was thinking (not today as I run out of time) to install an linux VM and do the same there, maybe even with nouveau. Maybe I spot something
16:38MaximLevitsky: Windows VM with nvidia drivers is total blackbox for me
16:39MaximLevitsky: Also this setup should be heaven for RE as windows runs in the guest using the nvidia card - I could set up any kind of selective hooks to see what it is doing
16:39MaximLevitsky: AKA mmiotrace on sterioids
16:40MaximLevitsky: All I need is time :-(
16:41MaximLevitsky: One day I switch to half time job - this is my dream now :-)
16:50MaximLevitsky: goodbye folks - I will continue some debug stuff here.
17:17karolherbst: imirkin: his point was the firmware being "open" not where it lives
17:18karolherbst: AMD uses propritary firmware and some users don't want that
17:19karolherbst: I also don't consider the AMD drivers to be fully open sourced due to that reason
17:19karolherbst: sames goes for nouveau with maxwell2+ or with video accell firmware
17:19karolherbst: and the point is, if there is a mechanism to upload a firmware, then the user should be able to upload an open one as well.
18:29imirkin: karolherbst: and my point is ... even if you don't see the firmware, it's still there.
18:29imirkin: so why worry about it
18:48karolherbst: imirkin: I know. But for me it is as bad as being able to replace it.
18:48karolherbst: some don't differ between both kinds
18:49karolherbst: but then we could argue about what is "firmware" and what is "hardware" and how to differ between both things
19:25john_cephalopoda: karolherbst: I just tried compiling the nouveau from your git. How exactly do I get a kernel module out of that?
19:26john_cephalopoda: `find . | grep ko` doesn't result in anything
19:29john_cephalopoda: The module that I compiled together with the kernel resides in /lib/modules/4.13.5/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/nouveau/nouveau.ko
19:39john_cephalopoda: Ah, I think I got it to work.
19:44Fervi: Hello. I have Debian Sid. I remove this f ... bugged nvidia drivers. Now i use some kind of nouveau, but without opengl
19:44Fervi: libgl1-mesa-glx is installed
19:45Fervi: or maybe i have solution, wait
19:48karolherbst: Fervi: check dmesg, maybe it complains about missing firmware
19:48karolherbst: then you need to install the linux-firmware package
19:48Fervi: i think the problem is with libgl1-mesa-dri, because i have 13.0, but on repository is 17.0 (or something like that)
19:49karolherbst: depending on the GPU, you might need a newer kernel and/or mesa
19:50Fervi: now works, just libs with different versions
19:50Fervi: thanks for help
20:01john_cephalopoda: karolherbst: Using the driver module from git didn't change anything. I found a new way to crash it, it's by running certain Unity3d projects. Example error: https://bpaste.net/raw/ed2e36c02e41
20:09john_cephalopoda: The Unity3D errors are reproducible, which makes it convenient for testing.
20:10gnarface: another great way to test for driver flaws; steam big picture mode
20:10gnarface: doubly so over in-home streaming
20:11gnarface: (unfortunately also a good way to find steam flaws)
20:13karolherbst: john_cephalopoda: thanks for testing though. Would be nice if you could open a bug (if there is none related to your test)
20:13karolherbst: so that we can reproduce those and see what's going on ourselves
20:17Fervi: it is possible to enable reclocking option on nouveau drivers on Debian? (Nvidia Quadro FX1800) [Wiki arch is not compatibile with Debian's configuration I think]
20:27gnarface: it is possible on arch??
20:27imirkin: Fervi: which gpu is that?
20:27imirkin: ah, looks like G94?
20:28imirkin: mmmm ... i forget what the cutoff is. might be possible.
20:28imirkin: try doing it, if it's not, you'll just get an error
20:28gnarface: is it a module option in arch?
20:28Fervi: imirkin: NV94
20:28imirkin: cat /sys/kernel/debug/dri/0/pstate
20:28imirkin: to see the available levels
20:29imirkin: and then just echo the level into the file to try changing it
20:29Fervi: Yep imirkin: But i don't have anything in debug directory
20:29Fervi: it is empty
20:29imirkin: so you don't have debugfs mounted then
20:29imirkin: mount -t debugfs none /sys/kernel/debug
20:30Fervi: root@Renzan:/sys/kernel/debug/dri/0# cat pstate
20:30Fervi: 03: core 275 MHz shader 550 MHz memory 300 MHz
20:30Fervi: 0f: core 550 MHz shader 1375 MHz memory 800 MHz
20:30Fervi: AC: core 275 MHz shader 550 MHz memory 300 MHz
20:30Fervi: 0f looks great, but it is possible to get automatically?
20:31Fervi: i mean - if i need more power, then reclocker use 0f, if less - 03
20:40gnarface: might be some way to set it to be tied to cpufreq
20:40gnarface: personally i'd probably just write a script to toggle it
20:41karolherbst: Fervi: not yet, and not that easy on those older GPUs, I am working on getting it to work automatically on gt215+ GPUs
20:41Fervi: aw, ok
20:42john_cephalopoda: That sounds awesome, karolherbst
20:42karolherbst: Fervi: you can let it boot to the 0f clock though
20:43Fervi: @karolherbst: How can I do that? I don't see any info in documentation
20:44karolherbst: Fervi: https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/KernelModuleParameters/
20:44karolherbst: you are looking for NvClkMode
20:44karolherbst: so you would do something like nouveau.config=NvClkMode=0xf or nouveau.config=NvClkMode=15
20:44karolherbst: but it may be too unstable depending on the GPU
20:45karolherbst: you should try to set it manually first and see how that goes
20:45Fervi: yhm, ok. Well, everything works, but Speed Dreams only on 30 FPS. I can live with it :D
20:45gnarface: yea uh, watch the temperatures
20:45gnarface: of the cpu too
20:45karolherbst: Fervi: what was it before, 10?
20:46Fervi: karolherbst : I mean 30 FPS on (probably) Core 03 (slowest)
20:46Fervi: on nvidia 60FPS, but nv drivers are bugged on this card
20:48Fervi: It's also possible to manually set/force a certain power state by writing to said interface:
20:48Fervi: echo pstate > /sys/kernel/debug/dri/0/pstate
20:48Fervi: So i can echo "15" to this file and clock should be reclocked?
20:49karolherbst: mhh, not sure if you can echo 15
20:49karolherbst: but 0xf should work
20:49karolherbst: and if you get 30 on 03/default you should get 60 on 0f
20:50Fervi: it works
20:52Fervi: Hmm, AC (Automatic?) mode reclocks
20:52karolherbst: no, AC means your computer is on power
20:52karolherbst: DC means on battery
20:52karolherbst: and the last line shows the current clocks
20:53Fervi: ach, ok
22:00terminestic: I am feeling tired now , having been there for 10years in a row in the middle of conflicts over some graphics stuff, it's undoudedly an embarrassement to me, in my opinion Tom^ sorta guys have done whole lot worse though during those times, nearly not making any sense compared to me, i am not worried about such blokes commenting about me, just gene
22:00terminestic: ral health issues is the worry, slow overall progress keeping in mind that health seems to degrade and life is not endless, just push the pedal folks every next day will be harder
23:57ygrishin: Hi guys, according to https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/TestersWanted/ you want testers. I've got https://nouveau.pmoreau.org/iso/nouveau-2017_10_09.iso image burnt and running... and then there's just console invitation. How to actually run any tests there?