00:00Wally: airlied: 5 more years pls for 4.4
00:00Wally: Some devices(Hallium/Linux) still use it :.(
00:01Wally: even some new devices
00:04HdkR: 4.4 SLTS has even expired at this point, it's hella old.
00:04Wally: HdkR: doesnt matter to phone manufacturers
00:05Wally: and even tesla
00:05Wally: they are using nouveau on kernel 4.4.35
00:05Wally: (some cars)
00:06HdkR: Do they need the latest and greatest Mesa version?
00:06HdkR: Revalidating car software for running Mesa 22.2 sounds like a nightmare.
00:07Wally: Tesla doesnt need that but for me....I want 22.2 on my phone
00:07Wally: 27.x maybe
00:08Wally: Unfortunately many even new phones come with ancient kernels with only small bug fixes and patches without a mainstream kernel
00:08HdkR: You're running a Tegra phone?
00:08anarsoul: Wally: so vote with your wallet? :)
00:09Wally: anarsoul: no
00:09HdkR: I didn't realize there were any Tegra X1 phones
00:09Wally: (wait does nouveau only support tegra x1?)
00:09HdkR: Tegra 4 and older isn't Nouveau
00:10HdkR: No way in hell are you sticking a Tegra X2, Xavier, or Orin in a phone.
00:10Wally: tx1+ is nouveau then
00:19Wally: HdkR: Then people using The sheild tablet will defffinetly be pissed
00:19HdkR: SHIELD Tablet is K1
00:20Wally: thats later than t4 isnt it?
00:20HdkR: Didn't they all die though? :D
00:20Wally: stfu lel
00:21HdkR: Also isn't K1 supported by upstream, so a newer kernel isn't a big deal?
00:21Wally: upstream linux?
00:22Wally: Sheild tablet can run mainline linux?
00:22HdkR: I seem to recall it is, but it is so old that I don't remember
00:23Wally: Well, I doubt samb uses the upstream kernel
00:25Wally: thesis is, 10 years support for all kernels even if the older kernels work well less PLS
00:26Wally: especially if your code might run on a embedded device
00:27HdkR: My expectations is that ten years on, you're going to be in software freeze for any piece of kit. So you're not expecting to mix a ten year old kernel with a 0 day old userspace
00:28HdkR: Unless you're doing something like NXP where they have a what, 25 year support life time or something silly?
00:29Wally: "Dont mention one of many exceptions to your argument while arguing" - Sun Tzu
00:31HdkR: I'm biased of course, since I'm always on bleeding edge hardware.
00:33Wally: HdkR: Im biased because I was using 35 year old hardware until only recently
00:34HdkR: Definitely have the mindset of opposing spectrums
00:36Wally: HdkR thankfully your expectation of a software freeze on very old kernels doesnt actually exist at 10 years, it exists at 12 years
00:36Wally: for some applications
00:38Wally: People running pmos use 10 year kernels with 0 day userspace all the time and with droidian they run 10 year old kernels with a 300 day userspace
00:38Wally: *7 year old kernel for droidian
00:39pabs: Linux mainline is definitely not up to scratch in the mobile space, even the Replicant libre fork of Android has to use tons of ancient kernels
00:40pabs: click the links to distro hardware support pages here, some of them mention kernel versions and mainline status https://wiki.debian.org/Mobile#Devices
00:41pabs: zero idea how many mobile devices need nouveau at all though
00:41Wally: mainly gimmic devices
00:45Wally: but I imagine child getting so frustrated and upset over how their sheild tablet comes up with a black screen after doing the update just like dad said to do it
00:48Wally: airlied: what do you think
00:49airlied: mobile devices that use nouveau from mesa is definitely 0
00:50Wally: airlied I know of 1
00:50pabs: which one is that?
00:50Wally: sambs one
00:51pabs: what do they have?
00:51Wally: Sheild tablet
00:54pabs: Graphics GK20A (Kepler) (192:8:4)
00:55pabs: looks like Linux mainline supports it, I see arch/arm/boot/dts/tegra114-roth.dts with model = "NVIDIA SHIELD";
00:56pabs: so in theory people using mesa on it should be able to upgrade Linux too
00:56Wally: we aint sysadmins
00:57pabs: its usually not hard, just install the distro kernel (and maybe ask the distro to enable missing config options)
00:58Wally: is it as easy as installing melonds?
01:00pabs: it depends, sometimes it is easier, since its sometimes just two commands: sudo apt install linux-image-armhf ; sudo reboot
01:06Wally: This still leaves the problem of giving ample time for people to move out of linux 4.4 on nouvaeu
01:07pabs: can you encourage them to try Linux mainline? and encourage whoever created their install method to use that instead?
01:07Wally: ask airlied
01:08Wally: hes the one who wants to brick 4.4
01:08pabs: I mean the people using linux 4.4, presumably airlied is using mainline already :)
01:14airlied:isn't really pushing it yet
01:55Wally: airlied: What is it?
02:03airlied: changes to remove old code by merging libdrm_nouveau
02:06Wally: eh that could wait right?
02:06Wally: if it doesn't affect the modern kernels much
02:07Wally: 5-6 years?
02:07airlied: indeed, I was only inquiring yesterday as to why we might care