06:13 pabs3: any thoughts on this Xwayland nouveau-related crash? https://paste.debian.net/plainh/ebb203ef
06:14 pabs3: xwayland 2:1.20.8-2 and libdrm-nouveau2 2.4.101-2 from Debian
10:10 linkmauve: The server provider we went for has such a stock of 710 to sell off that they’re including them with their new Ryzen-based server. :D
10:10 linkmauve: For exactly no one to use them.
10:14 HdkR: Oh hey, I have one of those garbage things on my shelf
10:14 HdkR: It's great to see if a GPU comes up on a random device at least
10:30 kherbst: pmoreau: as I am kind of focusing on other things more, please ping me if your MR get stalled
13:22 mmu_man: ok it's one of those days this crappy nvidia card freezes and makes me reboot 10 times
13:22 mmu_man: how do I debug this
13:23 imirkin: are you using plasma?
13:25 imirkin: pabs3: that's most frequently a sign of multi-threading
13:26 imirkin: pabs3: however i don't see anything iwthin the trace to suggest that. could have been earlier though.
13:26 pabs3: I have the core dump if there is anything else in it that could be interesting
13:26 imirkin: doubtful
13:27 mmu_man: imirkin: yes, although I used GNOME for years and I switched to KDE some months ago because it was just unbearable
13:27 imirkin: mmu_man: may i suggest WindowMaker?
13:27 mmu_man: now, I disabled compositing and stuff, but it still freezes from time to time :D
13:28 mmu_man: imirkin: LOL, I actually started porting the Cocoa frontend of NetSurf to GNUstep last month :D
13:28 imirkin: mmu_man: btw, which GPU?
13:28 mmu_man: antique stuff
13:28 mmu_man: GT218M [NVS 3100M] (rev a2)
13:28 imirkin: ah.
13:28 pabs3: anything in the systemd journal that would be interesting?
13:28 imirkin: pabs3: nope
13:29 pabs3: ok :)
13:29 imirkin: the reality is that we don't have a great way to debug ... almost anything
13:29 mmu_man: it never worked correctly, I kept switching between Nouveau and the binary driver. but the binary driver doesn't even load anymore (tryint to map something too large at init)
13:29 imirkin: good debug tools take time.
13:29 imirkin: mmu_man: i mean, GT218 should be totally fine
13:29 imirkin: are you using xf86-video-nouveau?
13:30 imirkin: (if not, you should be)
13:30 mmu_man: 9 years and I was never able to just use this machine correctly, yet I paid more than 1000€. Not even mentionning Haiku, where I'm stuck at 1280x1024 because their crappy VESABIOS doesn't know about my fullHD panel
13:30 imirkin: i almost contributed stuff to haiku...
13:30 mmu_man: almost? :D
13:31 imirkin: i talked to one of the main developers a lot
13:31 imirkin: about DRI and so on
13:31 mmu_man: how do I tell?
13:31 imirkin: read a lot of code
13:31 imirkin: got it booting in a VM
13:31 imirkin: but could never quite figure out how to get development/etc going
13:32 mmu_man: xserver-xorg-video-nouveau: Installed: 1:1.0.16-1
13:32 mmu_man: (I'm on Sid)
13:32 imirkin: that's a bad sign
13:32 imirkin: indicates you're using debian
13:32 imirkin: and iirc debian carries ben's patch to not use xf86-video-nouveau
13:32 mmu_man: ah, so the problem is Debian? :D
13:32 imirkin: can you check if it's actually being used?
13:33 mmu_man: how so?
13:33 imirkin: pastebin /var/log/Xorg.0.log
13:35 mmu_man: https://pastebin.com/Wrj4PETV
13:35 mmu_man: I avoid running VLC as it now freezes right away (but I heard there was a VLC bug)
13:35 mmu_man: but still sometimes it just freezes moving a window. sometimes killing kwin and restarting gives control back
13:36 mmu_man: and sometimes I just have a hard freeze with PGRAPH TLB flush idle timeout fail
13:36 imirkin: [ 105.474] (II) modeset(0): using drv /dev/dri/card0
13:36 imirkin: yeah, you're using the stupid modesetting driver, not nouveau
13:36 imirkin: you can force it with a driver config in your xorg.conf
13:37 mmu_man: gee, so you tell me I've been having this just because Debian decided not to use the correct thing? :D
13:37 imirkin: that should greatly improve stability
13:38 mmu_man:goes wiki/TroubleShooting
13:39 imirkin: it's not there
13:39 imirkin: all the stuff in troubleshooting and bugs and faq is wrong
13:39 mmu_man: oh, maybe it should be fixed then :D
13:39 imirkin: it should.
13:45 imirkin: (ok, it's probably not actively wrong. just very outdated and not relevant)
13:55 mmu_man: hmm ok so just Driver "nouveau" in a Device Section in a /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-force-nouveau.conf ?
13:56 mmu_man: let's try that
13:57 mmu_man: wish me luck
14:11 imirkin: great success?
14:12 mmu_man: imirkin: https://pastebin.com/vYU6zb96
14:12 mmu_man: no "modesetting"
14:12 mmu_man: let's see if it freezes at all
14:12 imirkin: yay
14:12 mmu_man: geee if I knew that was as easy…
14:12 mmu_man: I was expecting to spend days debugging kernel code
14:12 mmu_man: (not that I don't like that but I have way too much TODO already)
14:13 mmu_man: let's try VLC
14:17 mmu_man: nope
14:17 mmu_man: hung
14:17 mmu_man: had to kill VLC & kwin
14:17 mmu_man: I could trcover but there's something else
14:18 imirkin: vlc is probably an unrelated issue
14:18 mmu_man: yeah it's not the only thing triggering that
14:18 mmu_man: sometimes kwin freezes when making a window fullscreen
14:18 mmu_man: you see the decor around being stretched several times, then it stays that way instead of being redrawn correctly
14:30 mmu_man: interesting, tried VLC again
14:30 mmu_man: hung, but I killed it only, and kwin gave me control back
14:30 imirkin: yeah
14:30 imirkin: check dmesg
14:30 imirkin: probably see a bunch of efforts
14:31 imirkin: probably vdpau + gl kills it
14:31 mmu_man: VLC is trying all sorts of video outputs… VDPAU fails (missing firmware)
14:31 imirkin: oh
14:31 mmu_man: then it loads the VA-API so
14:31 imirkin: in that case ... not sure why it wouldn't work
14:32 mmu_man: https://pastebin.com/j9nzAUkR
14:32 imirkin: right ...
14:33 imirkin: it's just unclear why it would hang if it's not using vdpau
14:33 imirkin: [00007f5a4401c7b0] glconv_vaapi_x11 gl error: vaDeriveImage: operation failed -- probably doesn't handle that well?
14:34 imirkin: if you want a video player that works, i recommend 'mplayer'
14:37 mmu_man: yeah I've been using it for some days but I'm used to VLC
14:37 mmu_man: :D
14:40 mmu_man: vlc --avcodec-hw none
14:40 mmu_man: worked
14:41 mmu_man: now, removing the option worked also
14:41 mmu_man: odd
14:43 ericonr: it might have saved the setting
14:43 ericonr: take a look at preferences
14:45 mmu_man: I actually had "opengl" as forced output
14:45 mmu_man: switched back to auto
14:45 mmu_man: and yeah, witout --avcodec-hw none it hangs, with it just works
14:45 mmu_man: it still spits out the vaapi messages though, so it probably loads the driver even if it doesn't use it
14:52 mmu_man: ok I disabled hw decoding in the prefs, let's see if it sticks
14:54 mmu_man: maybe I could find a way to extract those firmwares from the binary driver
14:54 mmu_man: shrug, if I had time & money I'd just sue nvidia for not providing proper info
14:58 RSpliet: Might be better spent buying NVIDIA and changing course on open source
15:02 mmu_man: right… would probably need even more money
15:02 mmu_man: I'd keep that in mind if I ever win at the lottery :D
15:02 mmu_man: I mean, back 30y ago we had manuals with full specs and even sometimes schematics…
15:02 mmu_man: https://www.haiku-os.org/blog/mmu_man/2008-11-03_say_what_you_want_from_us_but_not_what_we_dont_want_to_hear_or_how_much_did_we_regress/
15:16 mmu_man: hmm I still have some lags when playing a video in Fx
15:17 imirkin: are you using xv output?
15:17 imirkin: that's probably the best one to use.
15:18 mmu_man: dunno how Firefox does it
15:18 imirkin: ah. fx = firefox.
15:18 imirkin: try disabling acceleration
15:18 imirkin: maybe that'll help
15:46 mixfix41: i built firefox 72 awhile back but it was so worth it
15:47 mixfix41: really convenient build script but it took a whole bunch of tries
16:21 mmu_man: hmm froze again, maybe because I started thunderbird (but why) or maybe just my attempts with VLC screwed up the internal state of the GPU
16:23 mmu_man: I'm starting to think I should just reinstall, there's an SSD that's been waiting for 2y anyway
16:27 linkmauve: imirkin, I would recommend mpv btw, its interface is quite similar to mplayer, but a lot of cruft has been removed.
16:28 linkmauve: And it supports modern systems much better.
16:31 mmu_man: linkmauve: hey, you there too :)
16:32 mmu_man: well I'm sadly used to the bells & whistles of VLC, including all the useless things I contributed, like the Flaschen-Taschen output (wait, but I don't have one anyway)
16:33 linkmauve: mmu_man, I just got two new Nvidia cards, for a total of three, so I have to be here when things won’t work. :p
16:33 linkmauve: There is one which I’ve already disabled, in some server JabberFR is renting.
16:33 mmu_man: eh :)
16:33 mmu_man: condoleances :)
16:33 linkmauve: Another one is my Switch, Nouveau works extremely well on it.
16:34 linkmauve: And the third one is a gift, a 1070 which I’d like to exchange for anything AMD or Intel.
16:34 imirkin: linkmauve: yeah, mpv is nice. but mplayer works.
16:34 linkmauve: imirkin, have you reported a bug, for something which doesn’t work in mpv?
16:34 imirkin: no
16:34 mmu_man: yeah mplayer works, you just need to google for the keyboard shortcuts :D
16:34 imirkin: mmu_man: they're in the man page
16:35 imirkin: linkmauve: did it drop xv?
16:36 linkmauve: Yes, but IIRC it got reimplemented in a non-stupid way after that.
16:36 linkmauve: Yeah, there is a video/out/vo_xv.c in there.
16:36 mmu_man: imirkin: I think I had to google anyway for some reason… oh right, I was searching for "channel" but # actually switches audio *tracks*
16:37 imirkin: linkmauve: maybe you're right. mplayer just works, no reason to use anything else.
16:37 imirkin: i've been using it since ~2000 or so...
16:38 linkmauve: For me, it being native Wayland is a reason enough to use mpv instead of mplayer.
16:38 linkmauve: Unless mplayer added support for that in the last few years.
16:39 imirkin: no clue. i have no plans on using wayland in the next 5y, so ... will figure it out then.
16:39 linkmauve: The high quality OpenGL scalers, debanding, etc. are another reason.
16:42 mmu_man: I forced Xorg back when I noticed Debian forced Wayland with an upgrade since redshift didn't work (can't set gamma). Maybe it works now?
16:43 imirkin: wayland doesn't really get me anything i want, and it loses me WindowMaker
16:43 imirkin: which i've been using since before i was using mplayer :)
16:46 mmu_man: is there any effort to support it?
16:46 mmu_man: or is it too tied to X11
16:46 mmu_man: I started cleaning up Conky of X11 stuff… awful
16:46 mmu_man: but I'm not too far I think
16:47 mmu_man: (cause I want it to run in Haiku)
16:47 imirkin: i'm sure it's highly tied into X
16:47 imirkin: don't see how a proper window manager could be written that wouldn't be
16:48 imirkin: (stuff like gnome is layers upon layers)
16:50 mmu_man: yeah :D
16:51 mmu_man: well, OOP can do wonders
16:51 mmu_man: (using a real OOP language, not trying to use objects in plain C like GTK)
16:53 linkmauve: mmu_man, it depends on what your compositor wants to support.
16:53 linkmauve: GNOME has night mode, which works like redshift, as they don’t want to let other programs control anything of the screens.
16:54 linkmauve: Other compositors like sway do support redshift.
16:54 mmu_man: well I'm using KDE now since GNOME was to instable
16:54 mmu_man: un
17:00 linkmauve: KDE also has their own clone of redshift, integrated in their control panel.
17:00 linkmauve: So that it can integrate well with other colour management features, gamma adjustment, ICC profiles, stuff like that.
17:11 mmu_man: hmmm
17:11 mmu_man: all went fine until I started VLC
17:11 mmu_man: but I was playing a video in Firefox
17:11 mmu_man: I wonder if it could be some concurrent use bug (race or something)
17:11 mmu_man: apt remove mesa-va-drivers
17:12 mmu_man: just incase
17:17 linkmauve: mmu_man, Firefox shouldn’t be able to use vaapi on X11, it requires Wayland for that.
18:04 mmu_man: ok now I can start and quit VLC, go fullscreen, play a video in Fx meanwhile
18:04 mmu_man: let's see if it holds
18:16 pmoreau: karolherbst: Understood
22:20 karolherbst: pmoreau: btw, what would help me finding more time for other stuff is to get done with this MR: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/4580
22:53 mmu_man: imirkin: for now everything's fine, crossing fingers